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daibakemono-archer-army-bycyborgsellout [2022/07/23 22:24]
cyborgsellout Took out references to FV being lingering 1, oops |
daibakemono-archer-army-bycyborgsellout [2022/07/23 23:18] (current)
cyborgsellout |
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| =====Daibakemono Archer Army===== | =====Dai Bakemono Archer Army===== |
| This is a guide about early-midgame Daibakemono Archer armies, how they work, the unique nature of the units, and how to protect them. by CyborgSellout | This is a guide about early-midgame Dai Bakemono Archer armies, hopefully a useful explanation of how this particular archer/infantry combination works in an army designed around them, some of the risks, and some idea of useful research to chase. by CyborgSellout |
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| ===Buildup and Composition=== | ===Buildup and Composition=== |
| Start building up daibakemono with bows around turn 8; you'll want at least 30 to fight in post-expansion battles-- basic early/midgame needs Ench 3 Constr 3 Conj 3. Requires: | If possible, it's good to start building up Dai Bakemono with bows around turn 8; it takes at least 30 to fight in post-expansion battles-- basic early/midgame needs Ench 3 Constr 3 Conj 3. Requires: |
| *20+ Daibakemono with bows Line | *20+ Dai Bakemono with bows Line |
| *20-30 Bandits with bows Line just in front of daibakemono bows | *20-30 Bandits with bows Line just in front of Dai Bakemono bows |
| *30-40 Undisciplined spear bakemono-sho in front (will die) | *30-40 Undisciplined spear bakemono-sho in front (will die) |
| *1 x Shuten-doji or Daibakemono leader (Just behind daibakemono bowline) | *1 x Shuten-doji or Dai Bakemono leader (Just behind Dai Bakemono bowline) |
| *2 x {{path>D2}} Uba skelly spamming (just behind edges of line) | *2 x {{path>D2}} Uba skelly spamming (just behind edges of line) |
| *1 x Bakemono Sorcerer (just behind center of line) to cast Earthpower, Strength of Giants x 2, Legions of Steel x 2. | *1 x Bakemono Sorcerer (just behind center of line) to cast ??Earthpower??, ??Strength of Giants?? x 2, ??Legions of Steel?? x 2. |
| Any other leaders are placed behind the center of the line, so the shuten-doji or daibakemono commander with bodyguards can protect them. This diagram shows a sandwich version-- it's a little safer. | Any other leaders are placed behind the center of the line, so the Shuten-Doji or Dai Bakemono commander with bodyguards can protect them. This diagram shows a sandwich version-- it's a little safer. |
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| | | | | | |Example Layout| | | | | | | |Example Layout| |
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| ====Unit Roles==== | ====Unit Roles==== |
| ===Role of Daibakemono archers=== | ===Role of Dai Bakemono archers=== |
| {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:Dai_Bakemono_2.png?25&nolink }} Daibakemono are a fairly unique troop type. Troops with heavy armor, bow/crossbow, and a 2-handed weapon, are fairly rare, and most nations do not have access to them. They allow you to leverage early-game aoe buffs much more than normal. This army focuses on Legions of Steel and Strength of Giants (Constr3, Ench 3). Enemies who use heavy infantry are forced to run across the field through longbow fire and get bad contact on a well-buffed army of heavily armored extremely heavy-hitters. | {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:Dai_Bakemono_2.png?25&nolink }} Dai Bakemono are a fairly unique troop type. Troops with heavy armor, bow/crossbow, and a 2-handed weapon, are pretty rare, and most nations do not have access to them. But they allow easy leverage of early-game aoe buffs. This army focuses on Legions of Steel and Strength of Giants (Constr3, Ench 3). Enemies who use heavy infantry are forced to run across the field through longbow fire and get bad contact on a well-buffed army of heavily armored two-handers. |
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| Other things to note are that they have longer range than other archers, they have bigger arrows, and strength of giants helps their ranged attacks, as well. | Other things to note are that they have longer range than other archers, they have bigger arrows, and strength of giants helps their ranged attacks, as well. |
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| Since they are expensive, most of the rest of the army is built around keeping these guys from facing too much attrition-- replacing the Daibakemono archers takes more time and resources than all of Shinu's other troop types, and also a lot of money. | Since they are expensive, most of the rest of the army is built around keeping these guys from facing too much attrition-- replacing the Dai Bakemono archers takes more time and resources than all of Shinuyama's other troop types, and also a lot of money. |
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| ===Role of Bakemono Sorcerer=== | ===Role of Bakemono Sorcerer=== |
| {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:Bakemono_sorcerer.png?25&nolink }} Bakemono Sorcerers are {{path>E2}} + %25 {{path>E1}}, so they can gem into Strength of Giants and Legions of Steel as soon as Constr3 Ench3 is finished. Reinvigoration or Unaging bless will get you a few more spells for your trouble, but won't affect Ubas. | {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:Bakemono_sorcerer.png?25&nolink }} Bakemono Sorcerers are {{path>E2}} + %25 {{path>E1}}, Even without ??Earthpower??, they can always gem into Strength of Giants and Legions of Steel as soon as Constr3 Ench3 are finished. Get a few more spells out of them with Reinvigoration or Unaging bless, but won't affect the Ubas. |
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| ===Role of Bandit Archers=== | ===Role of Bandit Archers=== |
| {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:bandit_2.png?20&nolink }} They're cheaper, but still have armor, helmets, and melee weapons, so they'll draw a bit of fire, screen any lances that come through, and hopefully protect the Daibakemono archers from attrition. You don't want so many that the Daibakemono archers rout if all of these guys die, just a few because they have similar behavior and are cheaper to replace. | {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:bandit_2.png?20&nolink }} They're cheaper, but still have armor, helmets, and melee weapons, so they'll draw a bit of fire, screen any lances that come through, and hopefully protect the Dai Bakemono archers from attrition. Don't want so many that the Dai Bakemono archers rout if all of these guys die, just a few because they have similar behavior and are cheaper to replace. |
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| ===Role of Bakemono-sho Spearmen=== | ===Role of Bakemono-sho Spearmen=== |
| {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:bakemono-sho_3.png?20&nolink }} These guys are just to break your enemy's formation up and reduce attrition. They're going to die, so make sure you have another 20-40 sneaking up with the army to replace them. They're very hp-dense, so they draw ranged attacks away from the daibakemono before they have buffs. They are also attack-dense, so they can cause damage, too. The general idea is that you have enough Bakemono-Sho to make sure the skeletons get on the field and the enemy front line loses formation, but not so many that they contribute to an early hp rout before your daibakemono run out of arrows. | {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:bakemono-sho_3.png?20&nolink }} Cheap screen infantry to break up the enemy's formation and reduce attrition. They're going to die or run, but if you want to have another 20-40 with them, they can sneak up with the army. They're very hp-dense, so they draw ranged attacks away from the Dai Bakemono before they have buffs. They are also attack-dense, so they can do decent damage, too. The general idea is that there are enough Bakemono-Sho to make sure the skeletons get on the field and the enemy front line loses formation, but not so many that they contribute to an early hp rout before the Dai Bakemono run out of arrows. |
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| ===Role of Ubas=== | ===Role of Ubas=== |
| {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:Uba.png?15&nolink}} Skelly-spam. Skeletons help bolster the army hp-rout threshold, and they add some flank protection against heavy cavalry. Also, skeletons won't die to foul vapors, so they can cause enemy infantry on “attack close” to move back and forth /across/ the field, instead of closing on your archer infantry. | {{:nations:ma:shinuyama:Uba.png?15&nolink}} Skelly-spam. Specifically {{path>D2}} Ubas. Skeletons help bolster the army hp-rout threshold, and they add some flank protection against heavy cavalry. Also, skeletons won't die to foul vapors, so they can cause enemy infantry on “attack close” to move back and forth /across/ the field, instead of closing on the main formation. |
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| ====Other Details==== | ====Other Details==== |
| **??Flaming Arrows??** | **??Flaming Arrows??** |
| Right after Ench3 gets you ??Strength of Giants??, Ench4 gives you ??Flaming Arrows??. If you know you're going to fight someone who is vulnerable to that, it can be a good idea, but remember that most of your troops can't get fire resistance until Ench5 ??Flame Ward??. So don't let any {{path>N2}} Ubas cast ??Wooden Warriors?? off script-- that can be very dangerous. | Right after Ench3 gets ??Strength of Giants??, Ench4 gives ??Flaming Arrows??. If there are enemy factions without fire resistance, it can be a jump in power. Fire resistance is not accessible until Ench5-- ??Flame Ward??. {{path>N2}} Ubas may cast ??Wooden Warriors?? off script-- that can be very dangerous. |
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| **??Foul Vapors??** | **??Foul Vapors??** |
| Requires Constr4 for ??Thistle Mace?? on an {{path>N2}} Uba. This represents the high water mark of this build, and it's worth going into some depth on it. Mostly it's just that 5AN poison is good, and it tends not to kill Dai Bakemono. Shinuyama has access to Poison Ward, and you can also script ??Heal??, it's somewhat reliable. If you want to, you have a luxury of time to cast ??Poison Ward??, and probably only need 4 casts to blanket all your good troops. | Requires Constr4 for ??Thistle Mace?? on an {{path>N2}} Uba. This represents the high water mark of this build. 5AN poison is good, but it tends not to kill Dai Bakemono. Shinuyama has access to Poison Ward, and ??Heal?? is an option, too, it's somewhat reliable. With an archer army, there is a luxury of time to cast ??Poison Ward??, and may only need 4 casts to blanket all the good troops. |
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| Bakemono-sho will still die, but they're probably dead to other things before that matters. But skeletons made by an Uba will be immune, and if the enemy infantry is having ai problems (or are on attack close) the enemy may just move vertically back and forth across the field between your two skelly summon paths before trying to actually close ground to melee the archer line. | Bakemono-sho will still die, but they're probably dead to other things before that matters. But skeletons made by an Uba will be immune, and if the enemy infantry is having ai problems (or are on attack close) the enemy may just move vertically back and forth across the field between the two skelly summon paths before trying to actually close ground to melee the archer line. |
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| ===Evocation Advantage=== | ===Short Range Evocations=== |
| Since your troops are stationary for 12 turns, all those range 25 evocations that are normally hard to leverage become very usable. You do have to make sure you script your mages correctly, though. Give them some low-fatigue spells or free time at the beginning, or they'll go offscript and burn their fatigue before the enemy gets close enough for ??Web?? or ??Frozen Heart??. | Since these troops are stationary for 12 turns, all those range 25 evocations that are normally hard to leverage become very usable. If the mages are going offscript and burning fatigue before the enemy gets close, use some low-fatigue spells in the first few rounds to let the enemy get closer, or at least close enough for ??Web?? or ??Frozen Heart??. ??Flame Eruption?? is great later at Evo6, and F1 Bakemono Shamans can ??Phoenix Power?? into it; usually they should survive, but it's not a huge loss if they eat an arrow. And eventually, ??Pillar of Fire??. |
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| ===Weaknesses=== | ===Weaknesses=== |
| More than other troops, Daibakemono face an interesting set of edge cases | More than other troops, Dai Bakemono face very thin advantage |
| * **most** of the time they can 1-hit infantry over a shield | * **most** of the time they can 1-hit infantry over a shield |
| * **most** of the time they can deal damage through a shield | * **most** of the time they can deal damage through a shield |
| A few points of hp, prot, or def can change these calculations drastically. The low attack density of size 3 troops means that base stats are even more relevant since harassment will occur less frequently. The Daibakemono swordsman is admittedly better, but cannot stand still for 12 turns, so can't really leverage the buffs that make it immediately more effective. Enemy heavy melee troops also cannot stay still for 12 turns, so they will be also be less effectively buffed, despite the daibakemono archer losing 1hp, 2dmg, and 1attack to the daibakemono with swords in already slim margins. The xp the daibakemono archers gain (if you don't attrite them) is more significant than normal due to their reliance on stats, as well. | A few points of hp, prot, or def can change these calculations rather dramatically. Without Legions of Steel and Strength of Giants, Dai Bakemono are very vulnerable to enemies who have cast them. Same with Mass Regeneration and Weapons of Sharpness-- Dai Bakemono can't be wasted when they won't be cost-effective. And since they are so slow, they can be caught out of position without the right magic, and then they're a huge loss. They should only walk into a certain loss if they are sure to cause some damage, and there's another Dai Bakemono army right behind. |
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| Also, as a side note, when your troops run out of ammo and advance, they won't advance in a line, so it's kind of advantageous to have the enemy hit you before you run out of ammo. If you do run out of ammo, that's probably a good sign, though, as the daibakemono should be fully buffed. | As for the stats, the low attack density of size 3 troops means that base stats are more relevant since harassment will occur less frequently. The Dai Bakemono swordsman is better by stats, but cannot stand still for 12 turns, so can't really leverage the buffs that make it immediately more effective. Enemy heavy melee troops also cannot stay still for 12 turns, so they will be also be less effectively buffed. This build is mostly about that, despite the Dai Bakemono archer losing 1hp, 2dmg, and 1attack to the Dai Bakemono with swords in an already razor-thin environment. The xp the Dai Bakemono archers gain (if they don't take too much attrition) is more significant than normal due to their reliance on stats, though, as well. |
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| | Also, as a side note, when ranged troops run out of ammo and advance, they won't advance in a line, so it's a little better to have the enemy hit the main line before they use all their arrows. |
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| ===Aoe5+ buffs=== | ===Aoe5+ buffs=== |
| ??Legions of Steel?? and ??Strength of Giants?? are the basics, but ??Wave Warriors??, ??Marble Warriors??, Wards, ??Weapons of Sharpness??, or ??Quickening?? are next. Most of these come a little later, but can be included in your armies if they'll be effective. These are only for enemies who are trying to fight you with brute army; many players will try for fatigue plays or wipes, instead, so Enchantment is probably safer, most of the time. | ??Legions of Steel?? and ??Strength of Giants?? are very accessible, and ??Wave Warriors??, ??Marble Warriors??, Wards, ??Weapons of Sharpness??, or ??Quickening?? should be next. Most of these come a little later, but can be included in these armies if they'll be effective. These are for enemies who are trying to fight with troops; a lot of the midgame is resolved with fatigue plays or battlefield wipes, so Enchantment for ??Relief?? and ??Mass Regeneration?? is often the safer path. |
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| ===Aoe1 Buffs:=== | ===Aoe1 Buffs:=== |
| ??Mossbody??, ??Quickness??, ??Iron Warriors?? are the big ones. Takes a lot of mages, but if you are desperate enough to throwa lot ofmages into the armies to do this, it can make a difference. | ??Mossbody??, ??Quickness??, ??Iron Warriors??, situationally ??Iron Will?? are the big ones. Takes a lot of mages, though. |
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