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guides:xibalba_expansion_guide [2025/06/21 21:24]
cybertron2 [EA Xibalba Expansion Guide – Dom 6]
guides:xibalba_expansion_guide [2025/07/20 12:53] (current)
cybertron2 [Above Ground Expansion Notes]
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-We’ll start off with the way scorpions interact with the AI. When units face the dominions AI, the targeting starts unlocked. When a unit gets close, there’s a chance the ai ‘locks on’. Once locked on, they won’t lock off. So as scorpions are either far weaker and cheaper, or far stronger and better defended than your bats (depending on the variant), it is usually beneficial to lock some of the AI targeting onto them, so your badly Armoured bats take less hits.+We’ll start off with the way scorpions interact with the AI. When units face the dominions AI, the targeting starts unlocked. When a unit gets close, there’s a chance the ai ‘locks on’. There may also be a prioritized list management aspect to this regarding unit commands (albeit for the purposes of this article we don't need to examine this) Once locked on, they won’t lock off. So as scorpions are either far weaker and cheaper, or far stronger and better defended than your bats (depending on the variant), it is usually beneficial to lock some of the AI targeting onto them, so your badly Armoured bats take less hits.
  
 Then we go onto the number of groups your units are in. Broadly, a group looks for two things. An available landing square – and its targeting ‘rule’. The square means if you send 1 group, you’ll get a blob, where a lot of bats block one another from combat. If you send 2, you’ll get 2 groups both with at least some contact area. Loosely, this means, more parties, more surface area. What’s important is a new unit won’t land on a ‘filled’ tile, if it would, it checks another tile. As such, more groups = more spread.  Then we go onto the number of groups your units are in. Broadly, a group looks for two things. An available landing square – and its targeting ‘rule’. The square means if you send 1 group, you’ll get a blob, where a lot of bats block one another from combat. If you send 2, you’ll get 2 groups both with at least some contact area. Loosely, this means, more parties, more surface area. What’s important is a new unit won’t land on a ‘filled’ tile, if it would, it checks another tile. As such, more groups = more spread. 
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 Then we go onto how attack rear works. Essentially, every model is given a backiness value – which is = their row number + a dice roll. That value is used to determine what attack rear targets – albeit the exact specifics are unknown. However if the tile is filled, it’ll be skipped over. The result of this is that sending more groups increases the chance of one landing a true attack rear. At present it is unknown whether this is a result of the surface area above, or sequentially eliminating backiness as described here. Then we go onto how attack rear works. Essentially, every model is given a backiness value – which is = their row number + a dice roll. That value is used to determine what attack rear targets – albeit the exact specifics are unknown. However if the tile is filled, it’ll be skipped over. The result of this is that sending more groups increases the chance of one landing a true attack rear. At present it is unknown whether this is a result of the surface area above, or sequentially eliminating backiness as described here.
  
-Finally - its worth a brief look at the targeting AI. Units in midair will not be targeted. My (limited) understanding says there is a prioritized list system, where the AI first looks for models in units on attack commands (not in fly) and if that fails, then cycles down to fliers and casters. The reason this matters is with your flying units - you can 'hook' most of the independents onto a small group of landed units. The exact mechanism is unknown, but broadly this knowledge can be used to de-prioritize the targeting of the flying units.+Finally - its worth a brief look at the targeting AI again - but in a little more detail this time. Units in midair will not be targeted. My (limited) understanding says there is a prioritized list system, where the AI first looks for models in units on attack commands (not in fly) and if that fails, then cycles down to fliers and casters. The reason this matters is with your flying units - you can 'hook' most of the independents onto a small group of landed units. The exact mechanism is unknown, but broadly this knowledge can be used to de-prioritize the targeting of the flying units.
  
 ====The 3 basic formations==== ====The 3 basic formations====
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 If you split the starting army into 2 commanders, and give each 3 groups of 2 lances 2 Armoured swordsmen, with the troops on hold attack rear and the commanders on hold hold hold hold hold (w/e, attack closest is best though), Xibalba can semi-reliably blind expand turn 1. For complicated reasons you leave them in the middle, don’t move the units (you can offset them back a tile or two but not much more). If I had to guess, it works around 75% of the time. You have 2 parties of these to start, plus whatever else you recruit. If you’re feeling dramatic and are using lucids research mod, you can use the research pips and Double Blind expand. If you’re feeling Really dramatic, take an awake expander and t1 triple blind expand. If you split the starting army into 2 commanders, and give each 3 groups of 2 lances 2 Armoured swordsmen, with the troops on hold attack rear and the commanders on hold hold hold hold hold (w/e, attack closest is best though), Xibalba can semi-reliably blind expand turn 1. For complicated reasons you leave them in the middle, don’t move the units (you can offset them back a tile or two but not much more). If I had to guess, it works around 75% of the time. You have 2 parties of these to start, plus whatever else you recruit. If you’re feeling dramatic and are using lucids research mod, you can use the research pips and Double Blind expand. If you’re feeling Really dramatic, take an awake expander and t1 triple blind expand.
 +
 +Alternatively, depending on risk tolerance, the 5 * 4 is almost as effective as the 6 * 4, but allows for more parties. Although it is noticeably worse RE fail rates in harder provinces, it's good enough most of the time, and you can fire off multiple of these parties t1 - the exact total depednding on era.
  
 ====Indie volume and troop totals==== ====Indie volume and troop totals====
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 At a theoretical level, some sort of scorpion + hold attack rear formation should work. The caster falls to the back of the formation, the lord runs to the front like a barbarian, and your frontline kills the lord and your attack rear snipes the caster. I’ve yet to get this consistent enough to recommend it, but at a theory level, Xibalba is potentially able to exploit these 2 behaviours. That said, the dogs kill your units incredibly quickly, and take a long time to kill, so this would need to be very heavily tested before I’d recommend it.  At a theoretical level, some sort of scorpion + hold attack rear formation should work. The caster falls to the back of the formation, the lord runs to the front like a barbarian, and your frontline kills the lord and your attack rear snipes the caster. I’ve yet to get this consistent enough to recommend it, but at a theory level, Xibalba is potentially able to exploit these 2 behaviours. That said, the dogs kill your units incredibly quickly, and take a long time to kill, so this would need to be very heavily tested before I’d recommend it. 
  
 +====A really fancy trick====
 +Xibalba using a 5 * 4 or 5 * 5 formation can blind expand. With lucids research mod, this provides extra commanders. As such, to a fairly high degree of success (I'd guess 75-80% per party but that may be overshooting), you can blind expand t1 using the * 4 formation. EA I believe you get enough bats to double blind expand. If oyu play as LA xibalba you start with 70 bats. Although you'll need a lot of luck, wuth an awake pretender it is feasable (albeit inconsistent since your parties are smaller reducing success odds and layered on that the odds of failure stack up) to expand 5 times turn 1 blind, at which point you have beaten dominions.
  
 ====Above Ground Expansion Notes==== ====Above Ground Expansion Notes====
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 • Apparently this works on certain hard provinces [ER_Zero – amazons] [Send 60] 3x attack close 3x attack rear • Apparently this works on certain hard provinces [ER_Zero – amazons] [Send 60] 3x attack close 3x attack rear
 +
 +- Heavy Cav commanders - use a 5 * N or 6 * N above ground rather than a 4 * N for consistency (5 should suffice against lighter heavy cav)
 +
 +  * Above ground do a 5xn, 6xn or 7xn to factor in the higher armor/hp of most commanders. This can be ignored on a few provinces, but its tricky to min/max. The increased success rate is worth the extra gold
  
 ====Many thanks==== ====Many thanks====
 Many thanks to ER_zero, a longtime pillar of the EA Xibalba community for all his help RE expansion. This guide wouldn’t have been possible without him. The 10x formation is his. Many thanks to ER_zero, a longtime pillar of the EA Xibalba community for all his help RE expansion. This guide wouldn’t have been possible without him. The 10x formation is his.
  
guides/xibalba_expansion_guide.1750541080.txt.gz · Last modified: 2025/06/21 21:24 by cybertron2