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magic-sites [2021/08/05 06:15]
rweird [Table] Updated site generation modifiers with Loggy's reverse engineering |
magic-sites [2022/03/30 21:32] (current)
joste [Links] |
| ======Magic Sites====== | ======Magic Sites====== |
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| Magic Sites are present across the map from games start. Most sites are initially hidden, though there are some that are revealed as soon as a province is taken. Sites are revealed by using the "Search for Magic Sites" action of mages or through the use of remote site searching spells (e.g. ??Dark Knowledge??). | Magic Sites are present across the map from games start. Most sites are initially hidden, though there are some that are revealed as soon as a province is taken. Sites are revealed by using the "Search for Magic Sites" action of mages or through the use of remote site searching spells (e.g. ??Dark Knowledge??). |
| Most sites provide their owner with [[gems|gem]] income, though they can also provide recruit-able units/commanders, bonuses to [[rituals|ritual spells]], spreading [[disease]], and other effects on a province. Diligent site searching can greatly increase your gem income and let you break into magic paths that your nation may not have. | Most sites provide their owner with [[gems|gem]] income, though they can also provide recruit-able units/commanders, bonuses to [[rituals|ritual spells]], spreading [[disease]], and other effects on a province. Diligent site searching can greatly increase your gem income and let you break into magic paths that your nation may not have. |
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| Other than their effects magic sites have a rarity, level, and set of terrains. The rarity controls how likely a site is to spawn, with rarity 0 being the most likely and rarity 2 being the least likely. The level determines how skilled a mage needs to be to find the site. The set of terrains controls where the site can spawn and if the site is unique. Mixed terrains appear to be able to spawn any site available to any of their individual terrain types. | Other than their effects magic sites have a rarity, level, and a set of [[terrain]] tags. The rarity controls how likely a site is to spawn, with rarity 0 being the most likely and rarity 2 being the least likely. The level determines how skilled a mage needs to be to find the site. The set of terrains controls where the site can spawn and if the site is unique. Mixed terrains appear to be able to spawn any site available to any of their individual terrain types. |
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| {{ ::misc:magic-site-example.png?nolink&400|}}Some site effects apply even before the site has been discovered. These include: | {{ ::misc:magic-site-example.png?nolink&400|}}Some site effects apply even before the site has been discovered. These include: |
| ====Element Breakdown==== | ====Element Breakdown==== |
| <WRAP box> | <WRAP box> |
| <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_f.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>Ideally search with a {{path>F3}} mage everywhere (on land), though a {{path>F2}} is not much of a downgrade and it is likely not worth the turn to re-search a province that has already been searched by a {{path>F2}} mage. Underwater a {{path>F2}} mage is sufficient.\\ | <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_f.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>Many {{path>F3}} sites may be found on land; the only {{path>F4}} site is unique, and may be found in a Waste.\\ |
| Waste and Deep Sea have the best return, so it may be worth remote searching for F in deep sea if you can't get a mage down there easily.</WRAP> | There is only one underwater site with path greater than {{path>F1}}, a unique {{path>F3}} site which may be found in a Sea.</WRAP> |
| </WRAP> | </WRAP> |
| <WRAP box> | <WRAP box> |
| <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_a.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>Ideally search with a level {{path>A3}} everywhere (on land), though a {{path>A2}} is not much of a downgrade and it is likely not worth the turn to re-search a province that has already been searched by a {{path>A2}} mage unless it is a cave.\\ | <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_a.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>Many {{path>A3}} sites may be found on land; only {{path>A4}} site is unique, and may be found in a Plain.\\ |
| It is barely worth searching sea provinces. If you do a {{path>A1}} search is sufficient.</WRAP> | Though infrequent, {{path>A2}} sites may be found in Seas, and a single {{path>A1}} site may exist in Deep Seas.</WRAP> |
| </WRAP> | </WRAP> |
| <WRAP box> | <WRAP box> |
| <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_w.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>Ideally search with a {{path>W2}} mage underwater and in caves, though a {{path>W1}} mage doesn't miss much and it may not be worth going back over later.\\ | <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_w.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>All terrains may have {{path>W3}} sites except for Deep Seas, which (perhaps ironically) cap at {{path>W2}}. The only {{path>W4}} site is unique, and may be found in any land provence.</WRAP> |
| Above ground a {{path>W3}} mage should be used as there are a significant number of gems in level 3 only sites (three rarity 0 ones are available for above ground provinces).</WRAP> | |
| </WRAP> | </WRAP> |
| <WRAP box> | <WRAP box> |
| <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_e.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>A {{path>E3}} mage is recommended for Caves and Deep Sea. Elsewhere it is nice to have but {{path>E2}} also covers most things and it is likely not worth going back to search with a {{path>E3}} mage later.\\ | <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_e.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>{{path>E3}} sites may be found everywhere, though underwater there are few possible {{path>E3}} sites. There are two, unique {{path>E4}} sites; one may be found in any non-Cave land provence, while the other may be found in a Cave or Waste.</WRAP> |
| Caves and Deep Sea have huge expected returns but are relatively rare. It is likely worth remote searching if you can't get a {{path>E3}} earth mage to your deep sea provinces.</WRAP> | |
| </WRAP> | </WRAP> |
| <WRAP box> | <WRAP box> |
| <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_s.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>The presence of the Unfound Door site (level 4, rarity 0) makes searching with a {{path>S4}} actually beneficial over a {{path>S3}}, but the expected income difference is so low that remote searching is rarely worth it unless you only have level 1s (and even then the return on Arcane Probing is very low as the example below shows).\\ | <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_s.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>Caves and Deep Seas have up to {{path>S3}} sites; there is a relatively common (rarity 0) {{path>S4}} site, the Unfound Door, which may be found in any other terrain except Wastes. There are five unique {{path>S4}} sites; two may be found in a Waste, one in a Mountain, and two in any non-Cave land provence. The only {{path>S6}} (!) site is unique, and may be found in a Forest, Mountain, or Waste.</WRAP> |
| Wastelands, Deep Sea, and Caves can't have this site so cap out at {{path>S3}} like the other gem types. Once again though {{path>S2}} searches are likely sufficient in these locations.</WRAP> | |
| </WRAP> | </WRAP> |
| <WRAP box> | <WRAP box> |
| <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_d.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>The Well of Pestilence site (level 3, rarity 0) makes a {{path>D3}} search for death worthwhile. As this site is usually easy to detect without searching (due to diesease and death scales) it is only worth searching to {{path>D2}} above ground unless you suspect a well.\\ | <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_d.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>{{path>D3}} sites may be found in all terrains, except Deep Seas which cap at {{path>D1}}. Several sites spread disease; in the Army Setup menu for a provence (Hotkey: 't'), the Hotkey 'd' will select all diseased troops - a sudden outbreak of disease may indicate a hidden site. There are two unique {{path>D4}} sites; one may be found in a land provence, the other only in a Mountain (this one spreads disease, and so may be detected by an observant player).</WRAP> |
| Caves and seas are likely only worth searching at {{path>D2}} (no well), and for deep sea {{path>D1}} is sufficient.</WRAP> | |
| </WRAP> | </WRAP> |
| <WRAP box> | <WRAP box> |
| <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_n.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>It is worth searching to {{path>N3}} if possible but as always if you have searched to {{path>N2}} the extra level may not be worth the turns. Caves and seas cap out at {{path>N2}} and deep sea caps out at {{path>N1}}. Sea provinces can contain the Kelp Fortress site, which gives a free fort (level 1 rarity 0). You should search {{path>N1}}+ ASAP to save yourself on infrastructure costs if possible as an UW nation.\\ | <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_n.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>{{path>N3}} sites may be found everywhere, save Seas and Caves (which cap at {{path>N2}}) and Deep Seas (which cap at {{path>N1}}). Note that a {{path>N1}} site, the Kelp Fortress, may be found in coastal underwater provences and creates a free fort. There are three unique {{path>N4}} sites; one may be found in a Forest, one in a Waste, one in a non-Cave land provence.</WRAP> |
| Forests and seas have significantly better gem returns than the other terrain types so you should search these first.</WRAP> | |
| </WRAP> | </WRAP> |
| <WRAP box> | <WRAP box> |
| <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_b.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>Not worth searching for gem income alone but you likely want to search to {{path>B3}} eventually if you are using blood for the chance of getting the summoning circle site (30% blood magic bonus). The second gate at level 2 and first gate at level 1 also have a blood bonus but are unique, so are probably less likely to be in your territory in any given game despite having a lower rarity.\\ | <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_b.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>Blood sites are never found underwater. On land, all terrain types may have {{path>B3}} sites, though Caves only have access to a single, rarity 2 (though non-unique) site. There are two unique {{path>B4}} sites; one may be found in any land provence, one may be found in any non-Cave land provence.</WRAP> |
| Obviously don't search for blood underwater.</WRAP> | |
| </WRAP> | </WRAP> |
| <WRAP box> | <WRAP box> |
| <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_h.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>Despite the presence of the Ancient Temple site holy searching gives a very low return. The underwater version gives {{gems>1W1S}} so is definitely worth searching for religiously. Luckily most nations have priest mages or cheap priests so the search is 'free'.\\ | <WRAP column 40px>\\ {{ :magicpath:path_h.png |}}</WRAP><WRAP column 800px>There are few Holy sites; all land provences may contain up to {{path>H3}} sites, while underwater provences cap at {{path>H1}} (Deep Seas have access to only one site, at rarity 0). There are two unique {{path>H4}} sites, both of which may be found in non-Cave land provences.</WRAP> |
| While {{path>H2}} and {{path>H3}} have some good sites (the Records of Mankind in particular) there are so few and almost all unique so finding them is very unlikely.</WRAP> | |
| </WRAP> | </WRAP> |
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| Reveals all Blood sites. Can target underwater, even though there are no Blood sites underwater. | Reveals all Blood sites. Can target underwater, even though there are no Blood sites underwater. |
| </WRAP></WRAP> | </WRAP></WRAP> |
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| ====Remote Site Searching Payoff==== | |
| On the whole the return on investment of remote searching spells is very poor if you have consistent access to the path and are not concerned about turn economy. If you have multipath mages for that element then even the turn economy benefit is mostly lost. | |
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| For example remote searching astral as [[LA Pan]] (only S1 access) will give a return of 0.164 pearls per turn on average for a plains province (assuming two sites on average). This takes 19 turns to repay itself and is close to the best example for the standard remote searches. | |
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| ??Voice of Tiamat?? is potentially an exception here. If you haven't searched a province at all it has a return of 0.894 gems per turn/cast/site freq. in deep sea and 0.523 in normal seas. This gives a positive expected return in 5 and 8 turns respectively assuming 2 sites per province, though if you can already search for water and fire up to level 2 this decreases sharply. Being able to search for gems in paths you don't yet have access to is likely valuable beyond what the raw numbers would indicate though, so it may still be worthwhile depending on your circumstances. | |
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| ===== Expected gem income ===== | ===== Expected gem income ===== |
| =====Site Generation procedure===== | =====Site Generation procedure===== |
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| | <WRAP box 400px right> |
| | ==== Terrain Modifiers ==== |
| | <WRAP column 150px rightalign> |
| | Manysites \\ Throne \\ Farm \\ Waste \\ Cave \\ Kelp Forest \\ Forest \\ Mountains \\ Highland //and// UW \\ Highland \\ Deep Sea \\ Plains / Sea |
| | </WRAP> |
| | +25 \\ +20 (stacks with other terrains) \\ -20 (to a minimum of 5) \\ +20 \\ +15 \\ +10 \\ +10 \\ +10 \\ +15 \\ +5 \\ +10 \\ +0 |
| | </WRAP> |
| Based on large numbers of experimental analysis, it has been possible to gain a rough understanding of how magic sites are generated on the map. Each province has a magic site frequency, which is the sum of the global site frequency (determined at game creation) and a terrain specific modifier. Generally (but not all the time), the most positive terrain modifier takes precedence in the case of provinces with multiple terrains. | Based on large numbers of experimental analysis, it has been possible to gain a rough understanding of how magic sites are generated on the map. Each province has a magic site frequency, which is the sum of the global site frequency (determined at game creation) and a terrain specific modifier. Generally (but not all the time), the most positive terrain modifier takes precedence in the case of provinces with multiple terrains. |
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| ^ Terrain ^ Modifier ^ | Higher site frequency is associated with more magic sites: For each province, the initial chance to spawn a site is global site frequency + terrain frequency modifier. It repeats this process until it has made 8 rolls, but the chance of each subsequent roll generating a site is 75% of the previous. For example, if a province had an initial chance of 80 to generate a site, the second roll would have a 60% chance, the third 45%, the fourth 33%, the fifth 24%, the sixth 18%, the seventh 13%, and the eighth 9%.Therefore provinces with a high site frequency are almost guaranteed to have a few magic sites, but it grows increasingly uncommon for sites to have four or more. |
| | Many Sites flag | +25 | | |
| | throne | +20 (stacks with other terrains) | | |
| | farm | -20 (to a minimum of 5) | | |
| | waste | +20 | | |
| | cave | +15 | | |
| | kelp forest | +10 | | |
| | forest | +10 | | |
| | mountains | +10 | | |
| | highland and UW (IE: gorge) | +15 | | |
| | highland | +5 | | |
| | deep sea | +10 | | |
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| Higher site frequency is associated with more magic sites: specifically, data has suggested that site generation may be modelled by 8 independent rolls for each of the site "slots", each with a probability of succeeding roughly equal to (global site frequency + terrain frequency modifier)/225. Additionally, sites have an assigned rarity, which is detailed in the [[inspector]] tool. Experimentally, the odds of each rarity site spawning following a successful roll are as follows: | Additionally, sites have an assigned rarity, which is detailed in the [[inspector]] tool. The odds of each rarity site spawning following a successful roll are as follows: |
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| ^ Rarity ^ Probabilty ^ | ^ Rarity ^ Probabilty ^ |
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| [[http://dominionsmods.com/index.php?showtopic=4028|A more comprehensive guide to Dom5 magic site generation]] by Loggy | [[http://dominionsmods.com/index.php?showtopic=4028|A more comprehensive guide to Dom5 magic site generation]] by Loggy |
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| | {{template>magicindex}} |
