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--- mandarbmax-expansion-titans [2021/03/22 09:43]
naaira
+++ mandarbmax-expansion-titans [2023/07/25 05:05] (current)
mandarbmax [Q&A on best use] corrected missing scrollover for mossbody and liquid body in 2nd question
@@ Line 38: / Line 38: @@
 ===== Conditions for success =====
 A list of things you want but don’t need for your expansion titan to be successful.
   * **Magic 3 scales** - Magic scales start you off with more research done at the start of the game!
   * **Randomized starting research** - You can get lucky and start with Enchantment 2 this way! Sure you can get unlucky with Enchantment 0 but at least then you will probably start with some Alteration or Construction. Spread magic starting research means you get 0 in all schools. Fuck that.
+<WRAP column third right centeralign> \\
+{{ :guides:expansiontitans:imperial_geomancer.png |}}
+//MA Tien Chi has awesome mages for titan support// \\ \\ \\
+{{ :guides:expansiontitans:keeper.png |}}
+//You may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like//</WRAP>
   * **Early age** - Early age means more gem income to start for you to use to make starting armor!
   * **Late age** - Late age means you probably start with a citadel so you can get your research going faster early. Keep an eye out for crossbows though and don’t be shy about casting air shield if you can.
-  * <WRAP column third right centeralign>{{ :guides:expansiontitans:imperial_geomancer.png |}}
+  * **Recruitable fluffers** - Being able to recruit someone to cast ??Body Ethereal??, ??Mossbody??, or other useful effects for your Pretender is great! Not only can it be used to buff your titan with effects otherwise unavailable but even for titans which can cast those spells themselves it can be good to fluff the effects to save on fatigue and casting time, particularly in tough fights this can be the difference between life and death.
-//MA Tien Chi has awesome mages for expansion titan support//</WRAP>**Recruitable fluffers** - Being able to recruit someone to cast ??Body Ethereal??, ??Mossbody??, or other useful effects for your Pretender is great! Not only can it be used to buff your titan with effects otherwise unavailable but even for titans which can cast those spells themselves it can be good to fluff the effects to save on fatigue and casting time, particularly in tough fights this can be the difference between life and death.
   * **Recruitable Earth or Astral mages** - to forge starting armor with.
   * **Earth gem income in your capital** - So you can forge superior ??Blacksteel Full Plate?? (anyone can alchemize to make ??Enchanted Ring Mail Armor??)
-  * **A Pretender with built in armor** - If they come with armor you don’t need to spend time forging them any.
+  * **A Pretender with built in armor** - If they come with armor you don’t need to spend time forging them any.
   * **A Pretender with Nature magic** - Nature casts ??Personal Regeneration?? which lets a lot of otherwise weak candidates expand.
   * **A Pretender with broad magic paths** - Having Nature is good but having other stuff lets you do more later on. Look for magic phase options in particular (Air or Astral).
@@ Line 57: / Line 61: @@
   * **Access to healers** - Even with regen chip damage, particularly early on when defenses are at their weakest, can give your beloved titan afflictions. Afflictions normally don’t slow a titan down much but being able to get rid of that pesky unhealing wound is like a free cast of ??Enlarge??!
+==== Example: Keeper of the Bridge ====
+<WRAP box centeralign>
+<WRAP column twothirds>
+**Keeper of the Bridge** \\ {{:pretenders:keeper_of_the_bridge.png |}}EA Ulm does quite well with an expansion titan, it helps them kick start their troop expansion and gets them lots of land early on to pull ahead with; you don’t want to be playing EA Ulm from behind anyway. Their miserable sacred troop makes the choice to not take even a small bless very stomachable. This bad boy right here can cloud trapeze in to kill anything that you can’t just throw more forest warriors at and anything which can handle this titan in a fight will probably die to a sufficient volume of forest warriors.   </WRAP>
+<WRAP column third>
+**Chassis:** Awake \\ ??Keeper of the Bridge?? \\
+**Paths:** {{path>A2W1E2N2}} \\
+**Bless:** None \\
+**Scales:** {{scales>dom5O0P1C3G3M2M3}}
+</WRAP></WRAP>
 ===== Notes on not getting shanked to death =====
-Test your build thoroughly. Seriously, you want to have a good bit of practice and intuition under your belt before the real game gets going. I suggest at least 5 tests to turn 5 (to get your super early game down for a variety of starting research outcomes) and another two tests where your Pretender survives to turn 12 to test expansion and learn what kinds of indies can kill your Pretender.
+Test your build thoroughly. Seriously, you want to have a good bit of practice and intuition under your belt before the real game gets going. I suggest at least 5 tests to turn 5 (to get your super early game down for a variety of starting research outcomes) and another two tests where your Pretender survives to turn 12 to test expansion and learn what kinds of indies can kill your Pretender. Expansion titans don’t always need Nature magic to succeed but it sure does help. If you decide to try one out be sure to test it thoroughly.
+<WRAP column third right centeralign>
+{{ :guides:expansiontitans:eternal_knights.png |}}
+//Image from a natgen game with Pretenders Enhanced// </WRAP>
 There really isn’t any replacement for practice and intuition when it comes to keeping your Pretender alive through expansion and beyond because there are just too many factors to consider. That being said there are a few things to keep an eye out for. Eternal Knights; those 2h AP swords will mess you up in a hurry while other troops take the hits and they often don’t show up on the scouting reports either.
-(Image from a natgen game with pretenders enhanced)
+Other sorts of AP attacks can also fuck your shit up too; keep an eye out for enemy players using ??Greatsword of Sharpness?? thugs mixed in with regular troops or lots of water elementals. Speaking of elementals, ??Air elemental??s can stunlock anyone not resistant to shock damage and slowly chip them to death with AN attacks. Direct killing methods aren’t the only thing which can kill a titan, spam strategies can tie your titan up until the [[turn timer]] hits and forces a retreat, possibly into enemy territory!
-Other sorts of AP attacks can also fuck your shit up too; keep an eye out for enemy players using ??Greatsword of Sharpness?? thugs mixed in with regular troops or lots of water elementals. Speaking of elementals, ??Air elemental??s can stunlock anyone not resistant to shock damage and slowly chip them to death with AN attacks. Direct killing methods aren’t the only thing which can kill a titan, spam strategies can tie your titan up until the turn timer hits and forces a retreat, possibly into enemy territory!
+Obviously magic kill spells are a way other players will try to kill your titan so beware that sometimes you really need to stack your resistances! Just as a ??Serpent Kryss?? is a classic ??Golem?? killing weapon because its poison is so strong, so too 5 cold resistance will not save you from ??Frozen Heart?? spam.
-Obviously magic kill spells are a way other players will try to kill your titan so beware that sometimes you really need to stack your resistances! Just as a ??Serpent Kryss?? is a classic ??Golem?? killing weapon because its poison is so strong so too 5 cold resistance will not save you from ??Frozen Heart?? spam.
 Titans are very much a sort of finesse weapon. There's a lot which can go wrong using them, especially if you're less experienced than your opponents. You pay more for less raw power than a monster and the monster would make your expansion larger, and likely be used in much the same way in your first conflict but the Titan certainly outscales. Against competent opposition you're going to have to invest a lot in keeping it alive.
-Be smart and think ahead to cut off an opponent’s scheme before they can put it into practice, you only have the one titan so you can’t learn from your mistakes like you can in other situations. The exception to this rule is if they miss your titan! Be unpredictable and elusive with your titan, hitting them when they think they are safe and dodging their counter attacks. Magic phase movement and boots of walking real fast are both helpful in this regard. Occasionally scripting your titan to retreat from combat, particularly when you expect your enemy to use magic phase attacks against you, is another superb way to escape death. Having a scout holding ??Shademail Haubergon?? moving with your titan is another good way to avoid getting wrekt by 3 Cloud Trapezing Quickened Niefel Jarls with Serpent Krysses and heroic strength because you can just swap to the shade mail and hide.
+<WRAP column third right centeralign>
+{{ :guides:expansiontitans:ancestral_spirits.png?nolink |}}
+//Nations that summon sacreds in combat like T'ien Ch'i, Fomoria, and Vanheim can benefit quite a bit from a Pretender’s autobless with a weapon bless.//
+</WRAP>
+Be smart and think ahead to cut off an opponent’s scheme before they can put it into practice, you only have the one titan so you can’t learn from your mistakes like you can in other situations. The exception to this rule is if they miss your titan! Be unpredictable and elusive with your titan, hitting them when they think they are safe and dodging their counter attacks.
+  * Magic phase movement and boots of walking real fast are both helpful in this regard.
+  * Occasionally scripting your titan to retreat from combat, particularly when you expect your enemy to use magic phase attacks against you, is another superb way to escape death.
+  * Having a scout holding ??Shademail Haubergeon?? moving with your titan is another good way to avoid getting wrekt by 3 Cloud Trapezing Quickened ??Niefel Jarl??s with Serpent Krysses and heroic strength because you can just swap to the Shademail and hide.
-Expansion titans don’t always need Nature magic to succeed but it sure does help. If you decide to try one out be sure to test it thoroughly.
-Nations with field summon sacreds like T'ien Ch'i, Fomoria, and Vanheim can benefit quite a bit from a Pretender’s autobless with a weapon bless.
 ===== Q&A on best use =====
-//What are you looking for in a titan chassis when picking the one you want?//
+**Q:** //What are you looking for in a titan chassis when picking the one you want?// \\
-A broad selection of paths which will be useful in SCing, particularly early on. Coming with armor is really nice too and can save you from having to forge your own to start. Other miscellaneous chassis abilities such as Awe, Fear, multiple attacks, or flight are nice to have too.
+**A:** A broad selection of paths which will be useful in SCing, particularly early on. Coming with armor is really nice too and can save you from having to forge your own to start. Other miscellaneous chassis abilities such as Awe, Fear, multiple attacks, or flight are nice to have too.
-//What path combos do you prioritize apart from N2?//
+**Q:** //What paths do you prioritize apart from {{path>N2}}?// \\
-Nature is obviously important but so is Earth (for ??Ironskin?? and ??Temper Flesh?? primarily), Water (for ??Mossbody and ??Liquid Body?? mostly), Air (??Cloud Trapeze??! ??Mistform??, ??Mirror Image??, and ??Flying Shield?? are nice too), and Fire (??Fire shield?? is not to be underestimated) are my favorites.
+**A:** Nature is obviously important but so is Earth (for ??Ironskin?? and ??Temper Flesh?? primarily), Water (for ??Mossbody?? and ??Liquid Body?? mostly), Air (??Cloud Trapeze??! ??Mistform??, ??Mirror Image??, and ??Flying Shield?? are nice too), and Fire (??Fire shield?? is not to be underestimated) are my favorites.
-//Any good path combos?//
+**Q:** //Any good path combos?// \\
-Nature/Water for ??Mossbody?? + ??Liquid Body?? is obviously great. Air and Earth combined for ??Flying Shield?? is almost as good too. Blood and Astral combo nicely too because ??Power of the Spheres?? helps you cast ??Hellpower?? with less fatigue even before you get into putting up ??Astral Corruption??.
+**A:** Nature and Water for ??Mossbody?? + ??Liquid Body?? is obviously great. Air and Earth combined for ??Flying Shield?? is almost as good too. Blood and Astral combo nicely too because ??Power of the Spheres?? helps you cast ??Hellpower?? with less fatigue even before you get into putting up ??Astral Corruption??.
-//If you go for Astral what path level would you consider minimum?//
+**Q:** //If you go for Astral what path level would you consider minimum?// \\
-I’d say {{path>S7}} is a good place to be for safety from casual ??Magic Duel?? kills but even that can be a bit iffy. You can bring an {{path>S1}} pretender out solo against a nation without astral access but if you bring your {{path>S1}} titan out solo against MA Pythium you are in for a bad time. If your titan has Astral and you are fighting an enemy Astral nation it might be a good idea to keep your pretender screened with some of your own astral mages who can eat ??Magic Duel??s for them. Notable exception for the ??Svartalf Mastersmith?? who can safely take {{path>S2}} and shift to Linnormr, taking a -2 to all paths, and then be safe from ??Magic Duel??.
+I’d say {{path>S7}} is a good place to be for safety from casual ??Magic Duel?? kills but even that can be a bit iffy. You can bring an {{path>S1}} pretender out solo against a nation without astral access but if you bring your {{path>S1}} titan out solo against MA Pythium you are in for a bad time. If your titan has Astral and you are fighting an enemy Astral nation it might be a good idea to keep your pretender screened with some of your own astral mages who can eat ??Magic Duel??s for them.
-(You may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like)
+<WRAP center 600px centeralign>
+{{ :guides:expansiontitans:svartalf_2.png?nolink |}}
+//A notable exception to the "Don't take low Astral rule" is the ??Svartalf Mastersmith?? who can safely take up to {{path>S2}} and shift to ??Linnormr#2803??, taking a -2 to all paths, and then be safe from ??Magic Duel??.// </WRAP>
-//Do you have minimum att def stats to be viable?//
+**Q:** //Do you have minimum att def stats to be viable?// \\
-Nope, you can go try some repel shenanigans if you want but in my experience the best way to run an expansion titan is to treat them like a ??Monolith?? with legs who just sort of aggressively survives at people, T-posing at them until they flee, unable to face off against such powerful dabs.
+**A:** Nope, you can go try some repel shenanigans if you want but in my experience the best way to run an expansion titan is to treat them like a ??Monolith?? with legs who just sort of aggressively survives at people, T-posing at them until they flee, unable to face off against such powerful dabs.
-//Does it need to have multiple attacks if it has no fear?//
+**Q:** //Does it need to have multiple attacks if it has no fear?// \\
-Neither is required at all but both are nice.
+**A:** Neither is required at all but both are nice.
-//Do you often bring a fluffer with you?//
+**Q:** //Do you often bring a fluffer with you?// \\
-Yes! Fluff your thugs! Unless you have a specific reason not to fluff your thugs, such as magic phase moving when your fluffers can’t keep up, then you should fluff your thugs, all thugs, not just your expansion titan!
+**A:** Yes! Fluff your thugs! Unless you have a specific reason not to fluff your thugs, such as magic phase moving when your fluffers can’t keep up, then you should fluff your thugs, all thugs, not just your expansion titan!
-//How do you protect the fluffer?//
+**Q:** //How do you protect the fluffer?// \\
-Script them to retreat and if they die any way then they die, not the end of the world.
+**A:** Script them to retreat and if they die anyway then they die, not the end of the world.
 ===== Example Expansion Titans =====
+<WRAP box centeralign>
+<WRAP column twothirds>
+{{:pretenders:teteo_inan.png |}}**Teteo Inan** \\ Snake Skirt Long Jacket is a classic for EA Xibalba, and her Skull Necklace means she doesn’t even need starting armor! Fear and lots of attacks are just gravy. This one can even cast ??Hellpower?? for some silly high stats too!</WRAP>
+<WRAP column third>
+**Chassis:** Awake ??Teteo Inan?? \\
+**Paths:** {{path>E4N5B5}} \\
+**Bless:** 2x Reinvigoration, \\ Berserker, Blood Bond \\
+**Scales:** {{scales>dom5T1S3H3G3M2M3}}
+</WRAP></WRAP>
-Snake Skirt Long Jacket is a classic for EA Xib and her skull necklace means she doesn’t even need starting armor! Fear and lots of attacks are just gravy. This one can even cast hellpower for some silly high stats too!
+<WRAP box centeralign>
+<WRAP column twothirds>
+{{:pretenders:annunaki_of_love_and_war.png |}}**Annunaki of Love and War** \\ This Ur build has magic phase movement, physmoss (??Mossbody?? + ??Temper Flesh??), ??Ironskin??, ??Foul Vapors??, ??Flying Shield??, ??Breath of Winter??, ??Personal Regeneration??, ??Mirror Image??, ??Mistform??, and built in awe! Beware though that you can fluff most of these effects later on so play accordingly. </WRAP>
+<WRAP column third>
+**Chassis:** Awake \\ ??Annunaki of Love and War?? \\
+**Paths:** {{path>A2W1E2N2}} \\
+**Bless:** None \\
+**Scales:** {{scales>dom5O0P0H3G3M2M3}}
+</WRAP></WRAP>
-This Ur build has magic phase movement, physmoss, iron skin, foul vapors, flying shield, breath of winter, personal regeneration, mirror image, mist form, and built in awe! Beware though that you can fluff most of these effects later on so play accordingly.
+<WRAP box centeralign>
+<WRAP column twothirds>
+{{:pretenders:titan_of_crossroads_1.png |}}**Titan of Crossroads** \\ Expansion titans can even be trinities! As long as you are careful to make sure that they can all cast personal regeneration on themselves you can even get them to be able to all teleport at the same time too! They will rely more on fluffing later on more than most but in exchange for three SCs year 1 that is a perfectly fine trade. </WRAP>
+<WRAP column third>
+**Chassis:** Awake ??Titan of Crossroads?? \\
+**Paths:** {{path>S5D4N5}} \\
+**Bless:** +3 Magic Resistance, Spirit Sight \\ 3x Undying, Berserker \\
+**Scales:** {{scales>dom4T1S1H3G3M3M3}}
-Expansion titans can even be trinities! As long as you are careful to make sure that they can all cast personal regeneration on themselves you can even get them to be able to all teleport at the same time too! They will rely more on fluffing later on more than most but in exchange for three SCs year 1 that is a perfectly fine trade.
+</WRAP></WRAP>
+<WRAP box centeralign>
+<WRAP column twothirds>
+{{:pretenders:father_of_winters.png |}}**Father of Winters** \\ Bogarus is infamous for its rough early game unless extremely good scales are taken but an expansion titan can alleviate that weakness without shredding your scales! In addition to the usual power of physmoss, regen, and mistform the Father of Winters also has great stats (particularly in cold 3) and a length 3 greatsword for repels and an absolutely massive cold aura which you should not underestimate! The luck and magic scales are great for firebird memes and research too! </WRAP>
+<WRAP column third>
+**Chassis:** Awake ??Father of Winters?? \\
+**Paths:** {{path>A2W2N2}} \\
+**Bless:** None
+**Scales:** {{scales>dom4T3S2C3G3L3M3}}
-Bogarus is infamous for its rough early game unless extremely good scales are taken but an expansion titan can alleviate that weakness without shredding your scales! In addition to the usual power of physmoss, regen, and mist form the father of winters also has great stats (particularly in cold 3) and a length 3 greatsword for repels and an absolutely massive cold aura which you should not underestimate! The luck and magic scales are great for firebird memes and research too!
+</WRAP></WRAP>
-Don’t let this stop you from taking a hellbless though! This build should be good enough to give EA Abysia an illegally good early game. Taking an awake hellbless titan has non-combat uses too such as rushing mother oak, summoning worms that walk late game, or switch hitting by moving with an army as a huge support caster who is immune to battlefield wipes. Burning ones with this bless, mass regeneration, and enlarge from army of giants will fuck shit up. Free divine blessing too! Don’t forget to fluff with iron warriors and body ethereal for maximum carnage.
+<WRAP box centeralign>
+<WRAP column twothirds>
+{{:pretenders:lord_of_the_desert_sun.png |}}**Lord of The Desert Sun** \\ Don’t let this stop you from taking a hellbless though! This build should be good enough to give EA Abysia an illegally good early game. Taking an awake hellbless titan has non-combat uses too such as rushing ??Mother Oak??, summoning worms that walk late game, or switch hitting by moving with an army as a huge support caster who is immune to battlefield wipes. ??Burning One??s with this bless, ??Mass Regeneration??, and ??Enlarge?? from ??Army of Giants?? will fuck shit up. Free divine blessing too! Don’t forget to fluff with ??Iron Warriors?? and ??Body Ethereal?? for maximum carnage. </WRAP>
+<WRAP column third>
+**Chassis:** Awake \\ ??Lord of The Desert Sun?? \\
+**Paths:** {{path>F5N6}} \\
+**Bless:** Awe, Barkskin \\
+**Scales:** {{scales>dom4T3P0H3G3M3M3}}
+</WRAP></WRAP>
+<WRAP box centeralign>
+<WRAP column twothirds>
+{{:pretenders:dharmapala_of_the_underworld.png |}}**Dharmapala of the Underworld** \\ If you feel really silly you can take a hellbless expansion titan and use them with recruitable thugs such as ??Bakemono Sorcerer??s functioning as miniature expansion titans. Please note that this specific build is untested and very memey and is offered more as inspiration than as a ready to go build.  </WRAP>
+<WRAP column third>
+**Chassis:** Awake \\ ??Dharmapala of the Underworld?? \\
+**Paths:** {{path>F7D10N7}} \\
+**Bless:** Awe, Fear, Regeneration \\
+**Scales:** {{scales>dom6T3S3C3D3M3M3}}
+</WRAP></WRAP>
-If you feel really silly you can take a hellbless expansion titan and use them with recruitable thugs such as Bakemono Sorcs functioning as miniature expansion titans. Please note that this specific build is untested and very memey and is offered more as inspiration than as a ready to go build.
+{{tag>Guides}}

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