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pretenders [2020/02/03 02:25]
jbrereton [Pretenders] complete rework to only contain information about Pretender mechanics. 		pretenders [2022/05/28 20:57] (current)
naaira [Death and Recall] Edited error about pretender god respawn. It always spawns inside the fort if you own the province.
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 //**The information in this revision of the article is accurate as of Patch 5.39.**\\ \\  //**The information in this revision of the article is accurate as of Patch 5.39.**\\ \\ 
  
-This page concerns mechanics specific to Pretender Gods. For Pretender Creation Strategy, consult [[Pretender Creation Strategy]]//+This page concerns mechanics specific to Pretender Gods. For Pretender Creation Strategy, consult [[Maerlande Pretender Design]] or [[Taorec Bless Strategies]]//.
  
-A Pretender God consists of a chassis which possesses magic paths that may affect [[#Custom Priest Spells]] and [[Bless|Blesses]]. It is also the source of a nation's [[Scales]] alongside any effects from [[Thrones]]. +A Pretender God consists of a chassis which possesses magic paths that may affect [[#Custom Priest Spells]] and [[Blesses]]. It is also the source of a nation's [[Scales]] alongside any effects from [[Thrones]]. 
  
-A Pretender God produces 3 [[Temple Checks]] while on the map, and is one of the few ways for nations with Dying Dominion such as [[EA Mictlan|EA]] or [[LA Mictlan]] to spread dominion naturally.+=====Awakening===== 
 +<WRAP box round third right> 
 +<WRAP centeralign>**Loggy’s research:**</WRAP>
  
-Pretender Gods, including each member of a Trinity individually, are always capable of claiming Thrones, and in friendly [[Dominion]] will bless Sacred troops and commanders fighting alongside them. +Every turn a die is rolled to see if the Pretender awakens. If the result of the die roll is less than the current turn, the Pretender awakens. Dice here are exploding. 
- +  * Dormant: 9 + d4! 
-====Awakening====+  * Imprisoned: 27 + d20! 
 +  * Dormant disciple: 4 + d4! 
 +  * Imprisoned disciple: 13 + d20! 
 +</WRAP>
  
-Pretender Gods may either appear Awake, be taken Dormant, where they will appear between turns 10 and 14, or  Imprisoned, appearing between turn 30 and 42. For Trinity Pretenders, all three will awaken at the same time.+{{:pretenders:father_of_winters.png?nolink |}}Pretender Gods may either appear Awake, be taken Dormant, where they will appear between turns 10 and 15, or  Imprisoned, appearing between turn 30 and 42. For Trinity Pretenders, all three will awaken at the same time.
  
 The arrival of the first Dormant and first Imprisoned Pretender God is always announced to the world on the exact turn they appear, although which God has awoken is not stated. The arrival of the first Dormant and first Imprisoned Pretender God is always announced to the world on the exact turn they appear, although which God has awoken is not stated.
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 Until a Pretender God awakens, you will not receive the effects of Incarnate blesses, but you will receive the [[#Custom Priest Spells|path-related]] Banishment and Smite spells their magic dictates. This is also true if a Pretender is banished to another [[Plane]]. Until a Pretender God awakens, you will not receive the effects of Incarnate blesses, but you will receive the [[#Custom Priest Spells|path-related]] Banishment and Smite spells their magic dictates. This is also true if a Pretender is banished to another [[Plane]].
  
-====Pretender Gods and Dominion Score====+=====Dominion===== 
 + 
 +{{ :pretenders:devi_of_darkness.png?nolink|}}A Pretender God produces 3 [[dominion|Temple Checks]] while on the map, and is one of the few ways for nations with Dying Dominion such as [[mictlan-ea|EA]] or [[mictlan-la|LA Mictlan]] to spread dominion naturally. 
 + 
 +Pretender Gods, including each member of a Trinity individually, are always capable of claiming Thrones, and in friendly [[Dominion]] will bless Sacred troops and commanders fighting alongside them.
  
 The Hit Points, Strength, and Magic Resistance of a Pretender God depend on the strength of Dominion they are located in. For each friendly or enemy candle they are located in, they gain the following bonuses or penalties: The Hit Points, Strength, and Magic Resistance of a Pretender God depend on the strength of Dominion they are located in. For each friendly or enemy candle they are located in, they gain the following bonuses or penalties:
  
-  *+/-10% Hit Points (to a minimum of 10%) +<WRAP box 800px center>==== Dominion Effect on Pretenders, Disciples and Prophets ==== 
-  *+/-½ Magic Resistance +<WRAP column half> 
-  *+/-1 Strength+**Friendly Dominion** 
 +  * +10% Hit Points per candle 
 +  * +½ Magic Resistance per candle 
 +  * +1 Strength per candle
  
 +---------------
 +  * In friendly dominion the Pretender, Disciples and Prophet are blessed at all times.
 +</WRAP>
 +<WRAP column half>
 +**Enemy Dominion**
 +  * -10% Hit Points per candle (to a minimum of 10%)
 +  * -½ Magic Resistance per candle
 +  * -1 Strength per candle
 +
 +--------
 +  * Outside friendly dominion the Pretender and Disciples can never be blessed. 
 +  * The Prophet can still be blessed in combat as normal.
 +</WRAP>
 +</WRAP>
 Pretenders, much like Prophets, carry over their current but not max HP levels from the prior turn. This level of health will not change until they are affected by remote attacks, combat, or the healing and disease-related damage phase near the end of each [[Turn (Strategic Map)|Turn]] on the strategic map. Pretenders, much like Prophets, carry over their current but not max HP levels from the prior turn. This level of health will not change until they are affected by remote attacks, combat, or the healing and disease-related damage phase near the end of each [[Turn (Strategic Map)|Turn]] on the strategic map.
  
-Pretender Gods are only affected by their own blessings in their own dominion, including otherwise Innate blessings such as Water Breathing, Recuperation, or Half Dead.+Pretender Gods (as well as prophets and disciples) are always blessed in their own dominion without needing a priest to bless them, including otherwise Innate blessings such as Water Breathing, Recuperation, or Half Dead. Outside their dominion, they lose this benefit, and //can't// be blessed. 
  
-====Death and Recall====+=====Death and Recall=====
  
-For the vast majority of nations and Pretenders, death results in the potential loss of one level of a magic path to a limit of 0, biased towards losing Nature, or the loss of a point of [[Dominion]], to a base level of 1.+{{:pretenders:fountain_of_blood.png?nolink |}}If a pretender dies it is not permanently dead. Instead you can recall it using your priests. To bring back a Pretender God which has died, around 50 priest-level turns must be spent using the Call God command to recall them. The amount of recall points generated is [Holy level + 1d3 -2] according to [[user:loggy:callgod | Loggy's tests]]. Priests with an Elegist bonus, or working with a claimed [[Thrones|Throne of the Pantokrator]] receive additional priest levels for this purpose.
  
-There is also a small chance for a pretender to gain either one level of Death, Astral, or Blood magic on recall, in addition to any other effects.+In [[Disciples]] games, the priests of the Pretender God can assist in recalling any dead Disciple God on their team. Any Disciple nation's priests can also help recall the main Pretender God, but not other Disciples than their own nation's.
  
-To bring back a Pretender God which has died, around 50 priest-level turns must be spent using the Call God command to recall them. Priests with an Elegist bonus, or working with a claimed [[Thrones|Throne of the Pantokrator]] receive additional priest levels for this purpose.+Death comes with a price though. Unless the god is immortal (and wasn't killed by Soul Slay) or its nation is Ur /Uruk, death can result in the potential loss of one level of a magic path to a limit of 0, biased or the loss of a point of Dominion, to a base level of 1. The chance of losing a magic path is [50% + 10% / level of Nature] (in tests 80% with any nature paths). If the pretender had no magic paths, it will automatically lose one point of dominion strength. Nature magic is the most likely to be lost (~80-90%), death the least likely. There is also about a 20% chance for a pretender to gain either {{path>D1}} Death, {{path>S1}} Astral, or {{path>B1}} Blood magic on recall, in addition to any other effects.
  
-A Pretender God that is recalled will appear outside the walls of the [[Fort]] of its own capital if it is under siege, regardless of its level of mobility.+Your Pretender God once recalled will always appear in your capital province. If you own the province the Pretender will spawn inside the fort - even if your capital is under siege. If you have lost your capital province the pretender will spawn outside the walls.
  
 Upon a Pretender God's return, a heal check is rolled against any [[Afflictions]] they picked up, including Disease, but not the Cursed status or [[Horror Mark|Horror Marks]]. Upon a Pretender God's return, a heal check is rolled against any [[Afflictions]] they picked up, including Disease, but not the Cursed status or [[Horror Mark|Horror Marks]].
  
-If a Pretender God has been polymorphed or transformed into a form which would not allow it to return without dying, such as an Aquatic shape for a land nation, or a non-water breathing shape for an underwater nation, it will return in its original shape.+If a Pretender God has been ??Polymorph??ed or ??Transform??ed into a form which would not allow it to return without dying, such as an Aquatic shape for a land nation, or a non-water breathing shape for an underwater nation, it will return in its original shape.
  
-===Trinities===+====Trinities====
  
-Trinity chassis suffer these same risks, including permanent dominion loss even from the non-primary Trinity member, and require around 50% more candles to bring them back to life.+<WRAP group> 
 +<WRAP column twothirds> 
 +{{:pretenders:titan_of_crossroads_1.png?nolink |}}Trinity chassis suffer these same risks, including permanent dominion loss even from the non-primary Trinity member. Each member requires 25 recall points to bring them back to life, meaning it requires 50% more points to bring all back to life, and only one can be resurrected one at a time. 
 +</WRAP> 
 +<WRAP column third box> 
 +**Beware** that non-primary trinities will retain their Twiceborn or Transformed shape; this is especially important to remember, as transforming underwater might lead to a permanent aquatic shape.</WRAP> 
 +====Exceptions====
  
-===Exceptions===+===Immortality===
  
-==Immortality==+<WRAP column 40px centeralign>{{ :abilities:immortal.png |}}</WRAP>Pretenders with the [[Immortal]] trait respawn automatically after a while and **cannot** be recalled. The latter can be a boon on nations with weak priests or a curse on nations with strong priests. If their soul is destroyed, they are treated as normal gods, meaning they may lose paths and must be recalled.
  
-Immortal Pretender Gods without the Soul Slayed or Soul Annihilated afflictions do not lose magic or dominion score upon their return.+===Ur/Uruk Pretenders=== 
 +<WRAP column 30px centeralign>{{:nations:flags:ea_ur.png|}}</WRAP><WRAP column 30px centeralign>{{:nations:flags:ma_uruk.png|}}</WRAP>Pretenders of [[ur-ea|Ur]] and [[uruk-ma|Uruk]] will never lose nor gain paths upon death. Combined with their national priests with the Elegist trait these nations can play more aggressively with their pretenders compared to other nations.
  
-If Soul Slayed or Soul Annihilated, or a Dominion Immortal pretender who died outside of their dominion at the point of death, they are treated as normal Gods and must be recalled.+===Twiceborn=== 
 +<WRAP column 40px centeralign>{{ :abilities:twiceborn.png |}}</WRAP>Pretender Gods with the Twiceborn status do not suffer any risk to lose magic or dominion score upon their return as ??Wight Mage??s. Additionally, if their Twiceborn shape has any attunement bonus (e.g. Asphodel), they may gain magic paths on returning to unlife.
  
-==Twiceborn==+=====Custom Priest Spells=====
  
-Pretender Gods with the Twiceborn status do not suffer any risk to lose magic or dominion score upon their return. Additionally, if their Twiceborn shape has any attunement bonus, they may gain magic paths on returning to life. +{{ :pretenders:azi.png?nolink|}}If a solitary Pretender God has any Path above level 4, the [[divine-magic#banishment-spells | Banish]] and [[[[divine-magic#smite-spells | Smite]] spells for the nation's priests will change. These spells are set at Pretender Creation, and cannot be changed either by empowerment or the loss of magic paths. See [[divine-magic#banishment-spells 
- +
-==Ur and Uruk== +
- +
-These nations' Pretender Gods are unaffected by death in terms of their base magic and dominion level. +
- +
-====Custom Priest Spells==== +
- +
-If a solitary Pretender God has any Path above level 4, the Banish and Smite spells for the nation's priests will change. These spells are set at Pretender Creation, and cannot be changed either by empowerment or the loss of magic paths.+
  
 Assuming equal levels of magical ability between paths, their priority is decided by the standard order of paths, with Fire first and Blood last. Assuming equal levels of magical ability between paths, their priority is decided by the standard order of paths, with Fire first and Blood last.
  
-[[MA Ermor]] and [[LA Lemuria]] do not gain these spells.+[[ermor-ma|MA Ermor]] and [[lemuria-la|Lemuria]] do not gain these spells.
  
-===Trinities===+====Trinities====
  
-For Trinity Pretender Gods, the paths on the first member to spawn dictate whether, and how, Banish and Smite are replaced.+For Trinity Pretender Gods, the paths on the first member to spawn dictate whether, and how, ??Banish?? and ??Smite?? are replaced.
  
 If the first member cannot use certain magical paths, but has access to others, it will replace the listed custom priest spell on the Pretender Creation screen with another, in the same order as a solitary Pretender God. If the first member cannot use certain magical paths, but has access to others, it will replace the listed custom priest spell on the Pretender Creation screen with another, in the same order as a solitary Pretender God.
  
-==Trinity Specifics==+===Trinity Specifics===
  
-For the base game's Gods, this means that the Hooded Spirit may not use the Earth or Water Banish and Smite variants. +For the base game's Gods, this means that the Hooded Spirit may not use the Earth or Water Banish and ??Smite?? variants. 
  
 The Grey Ones may only use the Death, Water, Nature, and Blood priest spells, and using the Death and Water variants requires Death 7 or Water 7 due to how these paths are split and reduced across the trinity. The Grey Ones may only use the Death, Water, Nature, and Blood priest spells, and using the Death and Water variants requires Death 7 or Water 7 due to how these paths are split and reduced across the trinity.
  
-The Titan of the Crossroads has -1 to Death and -2 to all other paths in terms of deciding Custom Priest Spells. +The Titan of the Crossroads has -{{path>D1}} Death and -2 to all other paths in terms of deciding Custom Priest Spells.
- +
-The Morrigna has -1 to Death and -2 to all other paths in terms of deciding Custom Priest Spells. +
-===== Introduction ===== +
- +
-  * FIXME Make introduction +
- +
-===== General Idea Pretenders ===== +
- +
-  * FIXME Add more Categories +
- +
-General Idea pretenders are a group of pretenders, with a general idea, which can be run with on a good portion of nations, and not be considered a bad pick. +
- +
-==== Cheap Expander ==== +
- +
-  * FIXME Add a list of pretenders to this list +
- +
-Cheap expanders are expanders who can be taken awake, with little to no magic path changes, and be expected to expand. What separates a lot of the awake cheap expanders are cost, military power, natural magic paths and unique traits. What scales you run doesn't alter the archetype, but it's recommended to have scales that allow your nation to function well. +
- +
-The purpose of taking a cheap expander is to be able to have a expander, while also not dumping your scales. Some pretenders need a bit of extra research, points in earth, or gear to expand. A natural expander who were to take these things were to be even stronger. +
- +
-=== Natural Expanders === +
- +
-Thrice Horned Boar, Earth Serpent, Dragons, Son of Fenrer, Linnormr, Svartalf Master Smith, Great White Bull, Great Black Bull, Wyrm, Myrmecoleon, Drakon, Ormr, Great Mother, Solar Serpent, Serpent of Chaos +
- +
-== 1-2 Earth Investment Expanders == +
- +
-Man-Eater +
- +
-== Research Expanders == +
- +
-== Item Expanders == +
- +
-==== Rainbow Researcher ==== +
- +
-A Rainbow Researcher has to be a awake rainbow, typically the great sage, and produce at least 50 research a turn, and have 2 points in every magic path, to be considered to be in this archetype. A awake bless, that's also immobile, could also fit in the stereotype of a researcher, but not as a rainbow. +
- +
-The goal of a rainbow researcher, is to give you a early game advantage on research, and then to site search, when it's efforts on research are no longer substantial. +
- +
-A rainbow researcher is typically ran on nations who, struggle/benefit greatly with early game research, enjoy a decent bless and/or want more magic diversity  +
- +
-=== Example Pretenders === +
- +
-Rainbow researchers come in many forms, so you can be creative with them, but here are some examples. +
- +
-== MA Abysia Heavier Bless == +
- +
-Dom 5, T3, P3, H3, D3, M3, D1 +
- +
-F6, A3, W3, E3, S3, D3, N3, B4 +
- +
-Awe, Major Shock Resistance, Major Cold Resistance, Strength of the Earth, Major Magic Resistance, Undead Command x3, Minor/Major Poison Resistance, Blood Surge +
- +
-The purpose of this god, outside of stereotypic things for this archetype to cover, is to cast Eternal Pyre +
- +
-== MA Ulm No Bless ==  +
- +
-Dom 4, O2, P3, H0, G3, M3, D3 +
- +
-F2, A2, W2, E2, S2, D2, N2, B2+
  
-The purpose of this god, outside of stereotypic things for this archetype to cover, is to be cheaper than your standard rainbow bless. Taking advantage that MA Ulm can tank into drain and still have good scales.+The Morrigna has -{{path>D1}} Death and -2 to all other paths in terms of deciding Custom Priest Spells.
  
-===== Specific God Pretenders ===== 
  
-Specific God Pretenders are Pretenders who typically have to be the same chassis. But can typically be ran on a decent amount of nations who allow that god.+=====Trinity Gods=====
  
-==== 5-6 Earth Snake ====+====Characteristics====
  
-Note-ably a amazing expander who can blind expand. It can give note-ably give the lightning/fire resist bless or a hard skin bless. It can also cast Riches from Beneath and Earth Blood Deep Well, which are note-able globals.+Trinity pretenders give you three chassis instead of one, tripling the number of thrones you can claim and the amount of actions you can take. However, if they are alive and in different provinces, they temporarily lose paths (-1 for each one missing) and don't spread dominion. Twiceborn Wight Mage trinities are unaffected by the malus, however living ones still are. If they die completely, only the dying trinity may lose a path and can be resurrected for half the Call God points (25). Only the primary trinity will be recalled in the original form, the others stay Twiceborn or transformed (if transformed UW, it might become aquatic permanently)
  
-What makes this god so effective, is that it naturally has 20 protection. Once you hit 3 earth, your earth is added to your natural protection. With earth 5-6, it'll have a protection of 25-26. If you run a hard skin bless with it, it'll have 31 protection in it's dominion.+====Magic Duel====
  
-This god is strong at removing early game pressure, considerably more so with hard skin. And possibly a decent bless for sacreds.+For the purpose of ??Magic Duel??, the base path level shown when empowering is counted, meaning the -2 malus in pretender creation is included for Morrigna and the Titan of Crossroads. The malus from splitting up the pretenders during the game is not counted for the purpose of base paths. Empowering works normally - no paths are deducted – as does path loss from dying.
  
-==== Nature Rush Tree ====+====Path Distribution====
  
-With this god, you get Irminsul, you have it be either awake or dormant, and have it least have 5 Nature. 7 Nature is more recommended to have the regeneration bless.+Each trinity chassis distributes paths differently. For example a {{path>F5A5W5E5S5D5N5B5}} pretender would be distributed as seen below: 
 +<WRAP box round> 
 +<WRAP column half> 
 +<WRAP column 40px> \\ {{ :pretenders:grey_one.png?nolink |}} </WRAP>**??Grey One??** (size 2, {{path>W1D1}}) - Excellent rainbow mage, though no ES cross path. Water and Death paths are split (see at right), other paths are assigned fully to one of the trinity. Cheap to Twiceborn, and primary god can also be transformed into a size 5 or 6 chassis before being Twiceborn to get a Tartarian chassis. 
  
-The entire purpose of this god is to do a few things. To cast Mother Oak, so you have higher nature income. And to give off a bless.+  * Deino (primary, NB): {{path>W3D3N5B5}} 
 +  * Enyo (FE): {{path>F5W3E5D2}} 
 +  * Persis (AS): {{path>A5W2S5D3}} 
 +</WRAP> 
 +<WRAP column half> 
 +==== Path-Sharing Specifics ==== 
 +Divide the Water and Death paths from pretender creation by two. For fractional results, Deino rounds both up, Enyo rounds Water up and Death down, and Persis rounds Water down and Death up. This means FW, WE, DA, DS, WN, and WB cross-paths are one rank cheaper than FD, ED, WA, and WS, and reaching specific WD on Deino only is two ranks cheaper than on all three. 
 +</WRAP> 
 +</WRAP>
  
-The reason why you have the god to be dormant as worst, is to be able to cast Mother Oak before someone else is able to do so.+<WRAP box round> 
 +<WRAP column 40px>{{:pretenders:hooded_spirit.png?nolink |}}</WRAP>**??Hooded Spirit??** (size 4, {{path>W1E1N1}}) – Primary god can turn into Atlantean Wight Mage when Twiceborn. They can unify to teleport other trinity members to their location after normal battle phase. Notable blesses: Cold3 + Chill Aura, 2x Reinvig, F&SR, Recuperation, Regeneration
  
-===== Single Player Pretenders =====+  * Spirit 1 (E): {{path>E5}} 
 +  * Spirit 2 (W): {{path>W5}} 
 +  * Spirit 3 (primary, other paths): {{path>F5A5S5D5N5B5}} 
 +</WRAP> 
 +<WRAP box round> 
 +<WRAP column 40px> 
 +{{:pretenders:titan_of_crossroads_1.png?nolink |}}</WRAP> **??Titan of Crossroads??** (size 5, {{path>S1D1N1}}) – Twiceborn turns them into size 5 Tartarian Wight Mages, but they lose special abilities. Sample blesses: Far Caster / Finesse / Magic Weapons + 2 MR or Fateweaving, Reforming Flesh, Recuperation, Regeneration
  
-Single Player Pretenders are more focused on clearing out the hordes of units that the AI typically likes to recruit. You can run some of these pretenders in multiplayer and have good success, but they are stronger in single player, since they are so focused on clearing out hordes of unorganized units.+  * Hekate Lampadephoros (primary, D): -2 to all paths but -{{path>D1}} -> {{path>F3A3W3E3S3D4N3B3}} 
 +  * Hekate Kleidouchos (S): -2 to all paths but -{{path>S1}}, teleporter -> {{path>F3A3W3E3S4D3N3B3}} 
 +  * Hekate Kourotropos (N): -2 to all paths but -{{path>N1}}, disease healer -> {{path>F3A3W3E3S3D3N4B3}} 
 +</WRAP> 
 +<WRAP box round> 
 +<WRAP column 40px> 
 +{{:pretenders:morrigna.png?nolink |}}</WRAP>**??Morrigna??** (size 6, {{path>A1S1D1}})– Twiceborn turns them into size 5 Tartarian Wight Mages. Notable blesses: Shock Resistance, Wind Walker, Far Caster/ Finesse / Magic Weapons + 2 MR or Fateweaving, Stygian Flesh, Reforming Flesh
  
-===== Useful Links =====+  * Morrigna 1 (primary, D): -2 all paths but -{{path>D1}}, Fear5 -> {{path>F3A3W3E3S3D4N3B3}} 
 +  * Morrigna 2 (S): -2 all paths but -{{path>S1}}, Fortuneteller 15 -> {{path>F3A3W3E3S4D3N3B3}} 
 +  * Morrigna 3 (A): -2 all paths but -{{path>A1}}, Berserk4 -> {{path>F3A4W3E3S3D3N3B3}} 
 +</WRAP> 
 +=====See Also=====
  
-http://pretenders5.testingmagic.ovh/ - To help find the cheapest pretender for your desired paths.+  * [[Pretender Titles]] 
 +  * [[Pretender Archetypes]] 
 +  * [[pretender-chassis | Choosing Your Chassis]] 
 +  * [[http://grogmission.blogspot.com/2020/09/dominions-5-pretender-design-and.html|Pretender Design]] (by Maerlande) 
 +  * [[http://dominionsmods.com/index.php?showtopic=3220|Pretender Design & Bless Strategies]] (by Taorec)
  
-https://youtu.be/qmX9Dmt_PtU - To help explain to you, in video, on how to make a good pretender. 
pretenders.1580696736.txt.gz · Last modified: 2020/02/03 02:25 by jbrereton

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