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thugs-and-supercombatants [2020/04/10 15:43] loggy Links, minor readability changes, correction on mossbody mechanics |
thugs-and-supercombatants [2022/12/21 17:01] (current) cactusowl |
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======Thugs and Supercombatants====== | ======Thugs and Supercombatants====== | ||
- | FIXME: add examples | + | Thugs and supercombatants are the " |
+ | |||
+ | These are usually thought | ||
+ | |||
+ | While the difference between a thug and a supercombatant is somewhat vague, generally | ||
====Thugs==== | ====Thugs==== | ||
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* A commander, recruited or summoned... | * A commander, recruited or summoned... | ||
- | * ...that can take on [[province | + | * ...that can take on a specific sort of enemy asset (most commonly |
+ | * ...usually | ||
* ...in a way that's relatively resource efficient. | * ...in a way that's relatively resource efficient. | ||
As you can probably tell this covers a very wide range of possibilities. In many ways, a thug is a " | As you can probably tell this covers a very wide range of possibilities. In many ways, a thug is a " | ||
- | Thugs can range in " | + | Building thugs requires three things: |
+ | For instance, a common thug task is capturing provinces defended only by [[province defense]]. As an example, a typical chassis for this is the ?? | ||
+ | Thugs designed to fight chaff need a way to survive and a way to kill. Survival often is based on layered defense: high protection, high defense stat, glamour, mistform, regeneration, | ||
+ | |||
+ | However, thugs can do other things too. A common role is as elite-killers, | ||
+ | |||
+ | It is critical to script thugs for the tasks they will perform. Spells like ??Quicken Self?? may be extremely helpful against other thugs, but detrimental against troops (where they will result in you fatiguing out faster). Especially when you expect opposition from things other than mundane chaff, understanding your opposition is critical so you can prepare countermeasures. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Thugs can also be " | ||
+ | |||
+ | Thug chassis vary in " | ||
====Supercombatants==== | ====Supercombatants==== | ||
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* ...by investing significant resources. | * ...by investing significant resources. | ||
- | Supercombatants are usually something that will come about in the late game, once the most powerful summons, buffs, and constructions have been researched. Usually only a few specific creatures have the stats and abilities needed to properly fill this role, such as the arch angels, ?? | + | Supercombatants are usually something that will come about in the late game, once the most powerful summons, buffs, and constructions have been researched. Usually only a few specific creatures have the stats and abilities needed to properly fill this role, such as the arch angels, ?? |
SCs are difficult to make work in Dominions 5 - in the prior games they were easier to make and harder to kill. Due to a variety of reasons this is no longer the case. Nowadays an SC needs to be tailored to the threat they are facing - making sure to have high [[fire resistance]] versus Abysia or high [[magic resistance]] versus Bandar Log for example. | SCs are difficult to make work in Dominions 5 - in the prior games they were easier to make and harder to kill. Due to a variety of reasons this is no longer the case. Nowadays an SC needs to be tailored to the threat they are facing - making sure to have high [[fire resistance]] versus Abysia or high [[magic resistance]] versus Bandar Log for example. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Designing Thugs and SC' | ||
+ | |||
+ | A thug or SC needs to do three things: kill whatever it needs to kill (or scare it off), not die in the process, and move around the map. One of the major advantages of thugs is the ability to mix and match equipment to achieve various goals, in combination with the innate abilities of the chassis. | ||
+ | |||
+ | What you use will depend on what you need to do, how much you want to spend, and what gems and paths you have. Vaettiheim will equip most of its thugs with Frost Brands, not Fire Brands -- simply because you don't have the gems or the mages to make Fire Brands. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Here are some of the more commonly-seen items: | ||
+ | |||
+ | ===== Fighting PD ===== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Thugs, particularly light ones, spend most of their time whacking province defense and chaffy infantry. This is best done with AoE weapons. | ||
+ | |||
+ | You need a way to kill them, and you need a way to not die in the process. | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ??Frost Brand?? ({{gems> | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ??Fire Brand?? ({{gems> | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ??Snake Bladder Stick?? ({{gems> | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ??Mace of Eruption?? ({{gems> | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ??Horror Helm?? ({{gems> | ||
+ | |||
+ | * Magic: Summoned elementals or ??Soul Vortex?? can wipe out PD reliably. In some cases, ??Fire Shield?? can also clear them out. | ||
+ | |||
+ | You also need to not die to PD or light enemy squads in the area. The best way for any thug or SC to survive is to layer defenses, so that anything that gets past one must deal with another. This also makes you more robust to certain counters: if you rely solely on a high Protection statistic to not die, then some mage will wander by with ??Lightning Bolt?? and you'll be sad. | ||
+ | |||
+ | If your base chassis doesn' | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ??Armor of Knights?? ({{gems> | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ??Copper Plate?? ({{gems> | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ??Chain Mail of Displacement?? | ||
+ | |||
+ | * Dragon scale mail: High resistance value, low encumbrance, | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ??Rainbow Armor?? ({{gems> | ||
+ | |||
+ | * ?? | ||
+ | |||
+ | ===== Killing Enemy Thugs/ | ||
+ | |||
+ | If you need to chop up enemy big stuff, you're looking for accurate high-damage attacks. Some items that do that well are ?? | ||
+ | |||
====Important Spells==== | ====Important Spells==== | ||
- | Thugging and Super Combating | + | Often your challenge |
===Self Buffs=== | ===Self Buffs=== | ||
- | [[Liquid body]] and ??Temper flesh??: Both provide all [[physical resistance]]s, | + | ??Liquid body?? and ??Temper flesh??: Both provide all [[physical resistance]]s, |
- | ??Hell Power??: Hellpower provides a host of stat boosts to a caster, +att, def, mr, etc. which are all extremely valuable to a thug or SC but comes at a steep cost in fatigue | + | ??Ironskin??, ?? |
- | [[Flying Shield]]: Gives a 50% chance to add 20 [[protection]] on any attack. This stacks plainly with regular prot making it able to almost completely negate a lot of attacks on already high prot thugs. | + | ??Soul Vortex?? is an excellent spell for fighting armies, allowing a powerful death mage to both kill and be healed by mundane troops they fight. |
+ | |||
+ | ?? | ||
+ | |||
+ | ??Summon Earthpower?? | ||
+ | |||
+ | ??Flying Shield??: Grants [[protective force]], giving | ||
+ | |||
+ | ?? | ||
+ | |||
+ | ??Phoenix Pyre??: The reincarnation effect can be very powerful on SC's with substantial reinvigoration. | ||
===Fluffer Spells=== | ===Fluffer Spells=== | ||
- | ??Body Ethereal??: makes the subject [[ethereal]], | + | A " |
- | [[Mossbody]]: Has a 75% chance to negate up to 15 points of damage, applied after protection, physical and elemental resistances. It has a funny effect where if an attack makes it through the extra 15 prot and does damage the mossbody disappears in a puff of poison but this is mostly an academic point when used on already high prot thugs. | + | ??Body Ethereal??: makes the subject |
+ | |||
+ | ?? | ||
??Legions of Steel??: +3 prot to all armor is good for anyone wearing armor and invaluable for prot stacking tactics. | ??Legions of Steel??: +3 prot to all armor is good for anyone wearing armor and invaluable for prot stacking tactics. | ||
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Various Prot buffs: Everything from ??Iron Warriors?? to ?? | Various Prot buffs: Everything from ??Iron Warriors?? to ?? | ||
- | [[Quickness]]: +2 att and def, doubled movement speed, and doubled attack rate are wonderful for any SC but it comes at the cost of doubled fatigue. This spell can be amazing to have on fatigue negative undead thugs or ruinous on one with more serious fatigue concerns such as heavily armored skratti. | + | ??Quickness??: +2 att and def, doubled movement speed, and doubled attack rate are wonderful for any SC but it comes at the cost of doubled fatigue. This spell can be amazing to have on fatigue negative undead thugs or ruinous on one with more serious fatigue concerns such as heavily armored skratti. |
+ | |||
+ | ====Countering Thugs and SC==== | ||
+ | Most thugs are designed to kill PD or unsupported armies. They thus focus their defenses on surviving being outnumbered by weak mundane units and their offense on killing or scaring away these quickly. The usual loadout of a ??Vine Shield?? and a ??Frost Brand?? is iconic for this. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Thugs also derive a lot of their utility from mobility: they often have a combination of magic phase movement (from ??Cloud Trapeze??), flying or fast movement, and stealth to strike unexpectedly and get away safely. | ||
+ | |||
+ | So, to counter thugs, you will want to use something that can catch them and something that can kill them efficiently without dying first (either by their own defenses or with superior numbers). | ||
+ | |||
+ | === Anti-Thugs === | ||
+ | |||
+ | In contrast to the 'vine shield and brand' loadout that excels at killing mundane troops, other items are superior at rapidly killing single strong targets. For instance, a ??Sword of Swiftness?? or a ??Holy Scourge?? is inferior to a ??Frost Brand?? at killing mundane troops, but will often kill a single beefy target more quickly. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Thus, if you know the characteristics of enemy thugs, it is often possible to design and script your own thugs to kill them more efficiently. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Especially since you can recover their gear (with scouts if necessary), this can be an efficient way of killing thugs and SC's; it can be worth a significant investment to jump on a SC with 50 gems worth of gear, kill it, and take its stuff. | ||
+ | |||
+ | The more expensive the SC, the more you can invest in killing it while recovering your investment. | ||
+ | |||
+ | === Anti-Thug Mages === | ||
+ | |||
+ | Especially if you are behind PD that can absorb attacks, mages (often in groups) can do a good job of killing thugs if their spells can target a weakness in their defenses. Cold resistance, for instance, may not seem vital on a thug or light SC designed to kill troops. But even a humble W1 mage behind friendly PD will make quick work of such a thug with ??Frozen Heart??. | ||
+ | |||
+ | In general, good anti-thug spells are those that target gaps in the thug's defenses and are effective against strong single targets (i.e. that have high precision or that summon allies). | ||
+ | |||
+ | Some good anti-thug spells are ?? | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | === Anti-Thug Elites === | ||
+ | |||
+ | Some thug defenses are readily bypassed by elite non-commander units with high MR, magic weapons, and good stats. For instance, a few ??Living Mercury# | ||
+ | |||
+ | === Catching Thugs === | ||
+ | |||
+ | There are two ways to catch thugs. One is to use magic phase movement to jump on them after they reveal themselves. This can often be done using A2 mages; many good anti-thug chassis have A2 (such as ?? | ||
+ | |||
+ | This doesn' | ||
+ | |||
+ | Another way to catch thugs is to simply anticipate their movement with very cheap antithugs or counter-thug elite squads who can disperse and meet them in the provinces they are trying to raid. For instance, many fairly weak commanders with a ??Holy Scourge?? can make quick work of a ??Dai Oni?? thug. Since they are so cheap, you can disperse these in provinces at risk of being raided and have a good chance of catching your target. | ||
+ | |||
+ | If you are anticipating thugs that may use magic phase movement to jump on you, one anti-thug squad can cover two provinces, since you'll fight them whether they jump in the province you are starting in or the one you are moving to. | ||
+ | |||
+ | =====See More===== | ||
+ | [[baalz-zen | Zen and the Art of Thugging]] by Baalz |