Illwiki Dominions 5 Wiki

User Tools

Site Tools

Trace:
thugs-and-supercombatants

Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

Link to this comparison view

Both sides previous revision Previous revision
Next revision 		Previous revision
thugs-and-supercombatants [2021/11/09 04:29]
cactusowl [Thugs] 		thugs-and-supercombatants [2022/12/21 17:01] (current)
cactusowl
Line 39: Line 39:
   * ...by investing significant resources.   * ...by investing significant resources.
  
-Supercombatants are usually something that will come about in the late game, once the most powerful summons, buffs, and constructions have been researched. Usually only a few specific creatures have the stats and abilities needed to properly fill this role, such as the arch angels, ??Laestrygonian Tyrant??s, or some [[pretender god]]s.+Supercombatants are usually something that will come about in the late game, once the most powerful summons, buffs, and constructions have been researched. Usually only a few specific creatures have the stats and abilities needed to properly fill this role, such as the arch angels, ??Laestrygonian Tyrant??s, or some [[pretender god]]s. Some nations have recruitable chassis that straddle the line between high-end thugs and light SC's; the most famous are the ??Niefel Jarl??, ??Dai Oni??, ??Fomorian King??, and ??Basalt King??. 
  
 SCs are difficult to make work in Dominions 5 - in the prior games they were easier to make and harder to kill. Due to a variety of reasons this is no longer the case. Nowadays an SC needs to be tailored to the threat they are facing - making sure to have high [[fire resistance]] versus Abysia or high [[magic resistance]] versus Bandar Log for example.  SCs are difficult to make work in Dominions 5 - in the prior games they were easier to make and harder to kill. Due to a variety of reasons this is no longer the case. Nowadays an SC needs to be tailored to the threat they are facing - making sure to have high [[fire resistance]] versus Abysia or high [[magic resistance]] versus Bandar Log for example. 
Line 57: Line 57:
 You need a way to kill them, and you need a way to not die in the process. You need a way to kill them, and you need a way to not die in the process.
  
-  * ??Frost Brand?? ({{gems>5W}} is the most basic, clearing PD with a minimum of fuss.+* ??Frost Brand?? ({{gems>5W}} is the most basic, clearing PD with a minimum of fuss.
  
 * ??Fire Brand?? ({{gems>5F5E}}) is an upgrade. Fire damage is better than cold damage on an AoE weapon since it works on summoned skeletons; the weapon itself is [[armor piercing]] so it can work against other thugs with high protection. * ??Fire Brand?? ({{gems>5F5E}}) is an upgrade. Fire damage is better than cold damage on an AoE weapon since it works on summoned skeletons; the weapon itself is [[armor piercing]] so it can work against other thugs with high protection.
Line 67: Line 67:
 * ??Horror Helm?? ({{gems>10D}}) provides fear, which can eventually rout enemy PD if you can endure their attacks for a while. * ??Horror Helm?? ({{gems>10D}}) provides fear, which can eventually rout enemy PD if you can endure their attacks for a while.
  
-* Magic: Summoned elementals or ??Soul Vortex?? can wipe out PD reliably.+* Magic: Summoned elementals or ??Soul Vortex?? can wipe out PD reliably. In some cases, ??Fire Shield?? can also clear them out.
  
 You also need to not die to PD or light enemy squads in the area.  The best way for any thug or SC to survive is to layer defenses, so that anything that gets past one must deal with another. This also makes you more robust to certain counters: if you rely solely on a high Protection statistic to not die, then some mage will wander by with ??Lightning Bolt?? and you'll be sad. You also need to not die to PD or light enemy squads in the area.  The best way for any thug or SC to survive is to layer defenses, so that anything that gets past one must deal with another. This also makes you more robust to certain counters: if you rely solely on a high Protection statistic to not die, then some mage will wander by with ??Lightning Bolt?? and you'll be sad.
  
-If your base chassis doesn't have good protection or the ability to cast ??Ironskin?? or similar, you will likely need some armor. Many armor types will provide protection plus other goodies.+If your base chassis doesn't have good protection or the ability to cast ??Ironskin?? or similar, you will likely need some armor. (Even if you do have this access, forged armor can provide even more protection.) Many armor types will provide protection plus other goodies.
  
 * ??Armor of Knights?? ({{gems>5E}}): lots of Protection for a cheap price and low encumbrance, but no other goodies. * ??Armor of Knights?? ({{gems>5E}}): lots of Protection for a cheap price and low encumbrance, but no other goodies.
Line 83: Line 83:
 * ??Rainbow Armor?? ({{gems>5A5N}}): magic resistance, reinvigoration, not too much encumbrance, but low protection. Useful for thugs or for combat mages. * ??Rainbow Armor?? ({{gems>5A5N}}): magic resistance, reinvigoration, not too much encumbrance, but low protection. Useful for thugs or for combat mages.
  
 +* ??Kithaironic Lion Pelt??: Budget head and body prot in one item for a cheap price and not much encumbrance.
  
 ===== Killing Enemy Thugs/SC's/Elites =====  ===== Killing Enemy Thugs/SC's/Elites ===== 
  
-If you need to chop up enemy big stuff, you're looking for accurate high-damage attacks. Some items that do that well are ??Greatsword of Sharpness??, ??Moon Blade??, ??Axe of Hate??, or ??Flesh Eater??. +If you need to chop up enemy big stuff, you're looking for accurate high-damage attacks. Some items that do that well are ??Greatsword of Sharpness??, ??Moon Blade??, ??Axe of Hate??, or ??Flesh Eater??. Items like ??Ring of the Warrior?? and ??Burning Pearl?? can help you hit.
  
  
Line 93: Line 93:
 ====Important Spells==== ====Important Spells====
  
-Thugging and Super Combating is not as much about killing the enemy as it is about keeping yourself alive. To this end there are many spells which can be used to make thugs and SCs multiplicatively more durable. This is an incomplete list and you can help by expanding it.  +Often your challenge is not as much about killing the enemy as it is about keeping yourself alive. To this end there are many spells which can be used to make thugs and SCs multiplicatively more durable. This is an incomplete list and you can help by expanding it.  
  
 ===Self Buffs=== ===Self Buffs===
Line 99: Line 99:
 ??Liquid body?? and ??Temper flesh??: Both provide all [[physical resistance]]s, halving physical damage rounding down after protection goes a long way towards keeping someone alive. Temper flesh comes with some [[fire resistance]] and liquid body comes with affliction resistance and some other effects but for the most use cases these spells are equivalent.  ??Liquid body?? and ??Temper flesh??: Both provide all [[physical resistance]]s, halving physical damage rounding down after protection goes a long way towards keeping someone alive. Temper flesh comes with some [[fire resistance]] and liquid body comes with affliction resistance and some other effects but for the most use cases these spells are equivalent. 
  
-??Hell Power??: Hellpower provides a host of stat boosts to a caster, +att, def, mr, etc. which are all extremely valuable to a thug or SC but comes at a steep cost in fatigue and risk of being attacked by a [[horror]]. It is recommended that it not be cased by any single mage under B5 because of the long time they will spend asleep following the casting. The number of horrors which will be attracted by this spell make it only survivable by already powerful units such as Melqarts, Skratti, and Pretenders. +??Ironskin??, ??Stoneskin??, and ??Barkskin?? give protection in return for a negative resistance. Often you can ensure that the negative resistance doesn't have too many negative implications -- but don't ??Stoneskin?? if you are expecting to fight ??Frozen Heart?? casters, for instance. 
 + 
 +??Soul Vortex?? is an excellent spell for fighting armies, allowing a powerful death mage to both kill and be healed by mundane troops they fight. 
 + 
 +??Invulnerability??, likewise, allows a powerful death mage to ignore attacks from mundane sources.  
 + 
 +??Summon Earthpower?? enables you to fight without fatiguing out.
  
 ??Flying Shield??: Grants [[protective force]], giving a 50% chance to add 20 [[protection]] on any attack. This stacks plainly with regular prot making it able to almost completely negate a lot of attacks on already high prot thugs.  ??Flying Shield??: Grants [[protective force]], giving a 50% chance to add 20 [[protection]] on any attack. This stacks plainly with regular prot making it able to almost completely negate a lot of attacks on already high prot thugs. 
 +
 +??Mistform??: Grants quite a lot of extra endurance against mundane attacks.
 +
 +??Phoenix Pyre??: The reincarnation effect can be very powerful on SC's with substantial reinvigoration.
  
 ===Fluffer Spells=== ===Fluffer Spells===
Line 109: Line 119:
 ??Body Ethereal??: makes the subject [[ethereal]], which provides a 75% chance for non-magical attacks to whiff. This is a good spell to fluff because it only requires {{path>S1}} but a bad spell to have an SC cast because they can be cost effectively countered by ??Magic Duel??.  ??Body Ethereal??: makes the subject [[ethereal]], which provides a 75% chance for non-magical attacks to whiff. This is a good spell to fluff because it only requires {{path>S1}} but a bad spell to have an SC cast because they can be cost effectively countered by ??Magic Duel??. 
  
-??Mossbody??: Has a 75% chance to negate up to 15 points of damage, applied after protection, physical and elemental resistances. It has a funny effect where if an attack makes it through the extra 15 prot and does damage the mossbody disappears in a puff of poison but this is mostly an academic point when used on already high prot thugs.+??Mossbody??: Has a 75% chance to negate up to 15 points of damage, applied after protection, physical and elemental resistances. It has a funny effect where if an attack makes it through the extra 15 prot and does damage the mossbody disappears in a puff of poison but this is mostly an academic point when used on already high prot thugs. Mossbody is particularly effective when combined with slash/blunt/pierce resistance from ??Temper Flesh?? or ??Liquid Body??; this combination is called "physmoss".
  
 ??Legions of Steel??: +3 prot to all armor is good for anyone wearing armor and invaluable for prot stacking tactics.  ??Legions of Steel??: +3 prot to all armor is good for anyone wearing armor and invaluable for prot stacking tactics. 
Line 149: Line 159:
 === Anti-Thug Elites === === Anti-Thug Elites ===
  
-Some thug defenses are readily bypassed by elite non-commander units with high MR, magic weapons, and good stats. For instance, a few ??Living Mercury?? will splatter most thugs. Wights and some blessed sacreds can do this as well. Leading small groups of these around, possibly with a mage to buff them, can do a good job of repelling raiding thugs.+Some thug defenses are readily bypassed by elite non-commander units with high MR, magic weapons, and good stats. For instance, a few ??Living Mercury#2515?? will splatter most thugs. Wights and some blessed sacreds can do this as well. Leading small groups of these around, possibly with a mage to buff them, can do a good job of repelling raiding thugs.
  
 === Catching Thugs === === Catching Thugs ===
Line 160: Line 170:
  
 If you are anticipating thugs that may use magic phase movement to jump on you, one anti-thug squad can cover two provinces, since you'll fight them whether they jump in the province you are starting in or the one you are moving to. If you are anticipating thugs that may use magic phase movement to jump on you, one anti-thug squad can cover two provinces, since you'll fight them whether they jump in the province you are starting in or the one you are moving to.
 +
 +=====See More=====
 +[[baalz-zen | Zen and the Art of Thugging]] by Baalz
thugs-and-supercombatants.1636432148.txt.gz · Last modified: 2021/11/09 04:29 by cactusowl

Page Tools

Content is available under CC BY-NC-SA 4.0. The Illwiki Dominions 5 wiki is not affiliated with Illwinter Game Design, the creators of Dominions 5.