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toldi-diplomacy [2020/11/27 20:17]
naaira [4. Conduct trade] 		toldi-diplomacy [2020/11/30 23:07] (current)
naaira [Coalitions]
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 \\  \\ 
 ==== NAP ending ==== ==== NAP ending ====
-If the NAP is no longer useful, inform the other player (or they will do it to you) that you are ending your NAP. Being a good sport about ending a NAP will retain goodwill with the player that you are ending your NAP with, which is vital for continued diplomacy. Therefore, end NAPs when the new turn roles. Sending message that you are ending NAP on turn 60 just as turn 60 is rolling over into turn 61 is viewed as ‘dirty’ by most players, and should be avoided.+{{:guides:diplomacy:goose_stonks2.png?64&nolink |}}If the NAP is no longer useful, inform the other player (or they will do it to you) that you are ending your NAP. Being a good sport about ending a NAP will retain goodwill with the player that you are ending your NAP with, which is vital for continued diplomacy. Therefore, end NAPs when the new turn roles. Sending message that you are ending NAP on turn 60 just as turn 60 is rolling over into turn 61 is viewed as ‘dirty’ by most players, and should be avoided.
  
  
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 <WRAP group><WRAP box round third right><WRAP centeralign>**Machiavellian Diplomacy**</WRAP> <WRAP group><WRAP box round third right><WRAP centeralign>**Machiavellian Diplomacy**</WRAP>
 Most MP games in Dominions 5 use Machiavellian diplomacy, named after the Italian diplomat from the Renaissance. While this reading of his ideas is rather crude and inaccurate, his "ideology" is often depicted "as godless, scheming and self-interested." This means you can be as scheming and deceitful as you want, but, keep in mind, acting in such a way will quickly gain you a certain negative reputation, that might make conducting diplomacy in future games more difficult.  Most MP games in Dominions 5 use Machiavellian diplomacy, named after the Italian diplomat from the Renaissance. While this reading of his ideas is rather crude and inaccurate, his "ideology" is often depicted "as godless, scheming and self-interested." This means you can be as scheming and deceitful as you want, but, keep in mind, acting in such a way will quickly gain you a certain negative reputation, that might make conducting diplomacy in future games more difficult. 
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:goose_stonks.png?64&nolink |}} \\
 Trades for items, gems, gold, and slaves, on the other hand, are generally excluded from Machiavellian diplomacy and will be enforced by game host (check game rules before trading). Trade deals involving provinces or diplomatic agreements (I pay you 50 gems so that you attack player A in 5 turns) are not enforced and fall under Machiavellian diplomacy.</WRAP> Trades for items, gems, gold, and slaves, on the other hand, are generally excluded from Machiavellian diplomacy and will be enforced by game host (check game rules before trading). Trade deals involving provinces or diplomatic agreements (I pay you 50 gems so that you attack player A in 5 turns) are not enforced and fall under Machiavellian diplomacy.</WRAP>
-NAPs are rarely enforced by the game host (the same way that trades are enforced/are binding). Therefore, you are bound to come across a player (or many players) that will break their NAPs with you. Breaking a NAP means attacking the other player without giving them the 3 turn warning agreed upon in the NAP agreement. Most players view NAP breaking negatively, and WILL be prejudiced against you for the length of the game (or for future games as well). Always keeping to your NAPs and never breaking them can spread the word in the communities where you play that you are a reliable diplomatic partner, whose word can be trusted.+{{:guides:diplomacy:honk2.png?64&nolink |}}NAPs are rarely enforced by the game host (the same way that trades are enforced/are binding). Therefore, you are bound to come across a player (or many players) that will break their NAPs with you. Breaking a NAP means attacking the other player without giving them the 3 turn warning agreed upon in the NAP agreement. Most players view NAP breaking negatively, and WILL be prejudiced against you for the length of the game (or for future games as well). Always keeping to your NAPs and never breaking them can spread the word in the communities where you play that you are a reliable diplomatic partner, whose word can be trusted.
  
 //Instances when NAPs can be broken://  //Instances when NAPs can be broken:// 
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 <WRAP box round third right><WRAP centeralign>**The many uses of the Eyes of God**</WRAP>//??The Eyes of God??// is a Global (Enchantment 5, {{path>S5}}, {{gems>50S}}) that gives you access to all graphs and shows you all magic sites, labs and fort locations on the strategic map. It also negates the province ownership hiding mechanic of certain nations, and tells you the name of each throne.  <WRAP box round third right><WRAP centeralign>**The many uses of the Eyes of God**</WRAP>//??The Eyes of God??// is a Global (Enchantment 5, {{path>S5}}, {{gems>50S}}) that gives you access to all graphs and shows you all magic sites, labs and fort locations on the strategic map. It also negates the province ownership hiding mechanic of certain nations, and tells you the name of each throne. 
  
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:happygoose2.png?64&nolink |}} \\
 You can recoup much of your pearl investment in casting it by selling information that you acquired through this global enchantment. For example, a score graph for {{gems>5S}} (retain the right to not include yourself in those graphs), throne names for {{gems>3S}}, special magic site information for {{gems>2S}} etc. Keep in mind that the spell //??Fate of Oedipus??// (Evocation 4, {{path>F4}}, {{gems>75F}}) will blind your Eyes of God caster. Therefore it is highly recommended that you do not cast it with your pretender. The Eyes of God might also push certain players to attack you earlier than they otherwise intended, as they will see your information advantage as a direct threat to them.  You can recoup much of your pearl investment in casting it by selling information that you acquired through this global enchantment. For example, a score graph for {{gems>5S}} (retain the right to not include yourself in those graphs), throne names for {{gems>3S}}, special magic site information for {{gems>2S}} etc. Keep in mind that the spell //??Fate of Oedipus??// (Evocation 4, {{path>F4}}, {{gems>75F}}) will blind your Eyes of God caster. Therefore it is highly recommended that you do not cast it with your pretender. The Eyes of God might also push certain players to attack you earlier than they otherwise intended, as they will see your information advantage as a direct threat to them. 
  
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:happygoose.png?64&nolink |}} \\
 Keep in mind that Eyes of God will not tell you how many mages the enemy has, or what exactly they have researched, but it will give you a good feeling as to how powerful the other nation is.</WRAP> Keep in mind that Eyes of God will not tell you how many mages the enemy has, or what exactly they have researched, but it will give you a good feeling as to how powerful the other nation is.</WRAP>
 //Why it is useful and how to go about it// //Why it is useful and how to go about it//
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 \\ \\  \\ \\ 
 ===== 6. Make friends ===== ===== 6. Make friends =====
-{{:guides:diplomacy:goose_stonks2.png?64&nolink |}}Dominions 5 has a niche, but active community. While playing your games and conducting your diplomacy, you will get a chance to get to know some of the other players.+Dominions 5 has a niche, but active community. While playing your games and conducting your diplomacy, you will get a chance to get to know some of the other players.
  
-Conversations struck up during diplomacy can lead to budding friendships and fruitful cooperation in the future (to bounce ideas off the other person for pretender/bless/scale builds for various nations, to discuss strategies in upcoming battles or wars etc.). In addition, if one wants to try out a MP disciples game (more on this bellow), then they are advised to start in teams with people they either know already (friends or acquaintances) or more experienced players who can guide them (like on the Immersion discord server).+{{ :guides:diplomacy:goose_stonks.png?64&nolink|}}Conversations struck up during diplomacy can lead to budding friendships and fruitful cooperation in the future (to bounce ideas off the other person for pretender/bless/scale builds for various nations, to discuss strategies in upcoming battles or wars etc.). In addition, if one wants to try out a MP disciples game (more on this bellow), then they are advised to start in teams with people they either know already (friends or acquaintances) or more experienced players who can guide them (like on the Immersion discord server).
  
 Keep in mind that for some people it is harder to wage total and unscrupulous war against friends. If you fall into that category of people, remember, your friend can always get revenge in the next game, if you pummel them this game. Keep in mind that for some people it is harder to wage total and unscrupulous war against friends. If you fall into that category of people, remember, your friend can always get revenge in the next game, if you pummel them this game.
 \\ \\ \\ \\
 +
 +====== Miscellaneous ======
 +
 +===== Coalitions =====
 +{{:guides:diplomacy:honk2.png?64&nolink |}}Coalitions are when two or more players get together to take down another nation, usually a nation that has grown so large or so powerful, that they are bound to win if they are not stopped immediately. Some nations do not need to grow to a large size before their neighbors believe them to be an existential threat (Sceleria, Nazca, MA Ermor etc.) and will coalition these nations in the early/mid-game.
 +
 +From the perspective of diplomacy, coalitions are a power multiplier. They allow you to enlist the aid (resources+troops+time) of another player to help you fight an enemy. When reaching out to a player about joining a coalition against another player, always clarify why you think the coalition is necessary (to convince the player) and what measures are you willing to take to fight the nation that needs to be brought down. This allows you to segueway into what you think the other nation can do as part of the coalition to take out the strong nation. 
 +
 +Keep in mind that gathering players into a coalition, and keeping them inside a coalition is almost like herding cats (situation and position of each player changes over time, and they might not be able to contribute to the fight against the strong player if their own borders are threatened by others). If you want a coalition, plan for it dissolving or at least weakening in 10-15 turns. Count yourself lucky if all original coalition members are still actively participating in the coalition after 20 turns (although at that point the question is how come you still haven’t taken out the strong player with all this support).
 +
 +==== Breaking up coalitions against you ====
 +Just as coalitions can be powerful when aimed at your enemies, they are equally dangerous when aimed at you. If you become the target of a coalition, then you have multiple options: 
 +  - Fight them all off if you are strong enough.
 +  - Sign a separate peace with a few of your attackers to focus on a smaller part of the coalition. You might need to give up territory/gems/gold/items for this.
 +  - ‘Turtle’ as in hide in your forts and avoid major engagements for 10-15 turns, as usually in that amount of time some nations will leave the coalition due to a change in their own position.
 +  - Avoid getting coalition-ed in the first place - do whatever is necessary to achieve that
 +
 +===== Defensive Pacts and Alliances =====
 +Those who have not played Dominions 5 might be surprised to find out that defensive pacts are almost non-existent in the community. In a Dominions 5 MP game you exist in a state of nature (as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hobbes#Political_theory|Hobbes]] would describe it), where anyone can attack you. NAPs are tolerated as they allow one to focus on other fronts. A defensive pact is somewhat less rare then an alliance. 
 +
 +<WRAP box round>
 +<WRAP column half>==== Defensive pact ==== 
 +Generally two nations agree to come to each others aid if one of them is attacked. Since diplomacy is not binding, one should only sign such pacts with players they trust or have known for a while (and can thus determine how the player will honor their word regarding the pact or not). Defensive pacts can be limited //“I’ll help you if and only if Player B attacks you”//, or general //“I’ll help you regardless who attacks you.”// 
 +
 +Defensive pacts usually should be kept as a secret, if publicized, they should be publicized in such a way as to act as a deterrent to aggression, rather than it acting as a magnet that draws negative attention on to the two players who signed the pact. Sometimes it is sufficient to let a player C know that you will come to the aid of player B if they get attacked by player C. </WRAP>
 +<WRAP column half>
 +<WRAP column half>
 +==== Do’s ==== 
 +  * Set clear expectations, boundaries, limits, timeframes. 
 +  * Be sure that both parties are exactly clear on what they want and are getting out of this defensive pact. 
 +  * Be sure to discuss what would violate the defensive pact (throne rush/remote attacks etc.).
 +</WRAP>
 +<WRAP column half>
 +==== Dont’s ====
 +  * Publicize it willy nilly.
 +  * Try to extort your defensive pact partner. 
 +  * Break a defensive pact without proper warning.
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:goose_stonks.png?64 |}}
 +</WRAP></WRAP></WRAP>
 +<WRAP box round>
 +<WRAP column half>==== Alliance ==== 
 +If defensive pacts are like white ravens, alliances are like people who win the lottery… twice. The level of cooperation within what is referred to as an alliance can vary greatly, but should include: information sharing (scouting etc.), trading with minimal tariffs, mutual defense, and, possibly, coordinated attacks/territory dividing. In my 20+ MP games I have signed one alliance. Both of us were middle sized powers and afraid of a much larger, stronger power nearby. Our alliance lasted most of the game, but got strained after my ally got attacked by player A, I joined the war against player A, but then player B also attacked my ally, and, since I didn’t share a border with player B, I was unable to help on that front. This led to my ally quickly loosing ground, forcing him to sign peace with player A (the stronger player), while he fought off player B (the weaker player). This also left me inan unfavorable war against player A. </WRAP>
 +<WRAP column half>
 +<WRAP column half>
 +==== Do’s === 
 +  * Everything that pertains to defensive pacts + a lot more communication.
 +  * Works best with people you know in real life, or have known for a long time. 
 +  * Always maintain a healthy dose of skepticism, to avoid being sucker punched if your ally decides to turn on you.
 +</WRAP>
 +<WRAP column half>
 +==== Dont’s ==== 
 +  * Same as defensive pacts + a much larger commitment to the other player. An alliance has little purpose if you (or the other player) are not willing to live up to the obligations of the alliance that you signed. 
 +</WRAP></WRAP>
 +</WRAP>
 +===== Etiquette to ‘vulturing’ =====
 +**‘Vulturing’** is the act of taking lands from player B, after player A has crushed most of the armies of player B. This leads to great antipathy from player A, who expects to receive all the spoils from fighting player B. Your act of swooping in like a vulture and picking off pieces from player B is thus viewed in a negative light. If one wants to vulture, it is better if they at least participate in the war against player B (to have some legitimacy to the claim of some of the lands of player B). Barring that, you should reach out to player A and politely negotiate for some of the spoils from player B citing: your rested and well equipped armies, your future goodwill towards player A, the importance of ‘nice’ borders (whatever that means), and importance of maintaining the ‘balance’ after player A has taken all/most of player B’s lands.
 +
 +If one cannot be bothered to reach out to the other player, then do not expect positive results. On the flip side, one can also reach out to player B, and ask them if they are fine with you taking some of their lands, so that it does not fall into the hands of player A. Most players will agree to this, and will wave any NAPs you might have with them in this scenario.
 +
 +Some players, notably Perun, would argue that one should not vulture on side that is losing, but on the side that is winning, so that you can gain a weak, but loyal ally (player B, whom you ‘saved’ from annihilation) and take out a potential enemy (player A if he gotten the lands of player B). 
 +
 +Use your own discretion when making these calls.
 +\\ \\
 +
 +<WRAP group>
 +<WRAP column half>
 +===== Remote assassination spells =====
 +There are **remote assassination spells** that do not show/tell who was the caster. ??Seeking Arrow?? is one of them. Only use these tools if you can achieve plausible deniability (other nations/players within spell range who could and would cast that spell). If one uses this carefully, and feeds misinformation to both sides, they could spark a war between two other players. Great finesse is required for this, and therefore it is not advised.
 +</WRAP><WRAP column half>
 +===== Spells reported as random events =====
 +There are also spells that are reported as random events: ??Black Death??, ??Hurricane?? etc. These generally cause unrest and/or kill population. Use them judiciously and if you have plausible deniability. If you are at war, then use it as much as you like, but beware, that you will receive a similar treatment from the enemy (as this will be viewed as an escalation of your conflict).
 +</WRAP></WRAP>
 +===== Scouting =====
 +Don’t trust some of the older players who scoff at scouts. Get scouts. If you don’t have them natively, summon them (black servants etc.). Gaining knowledge of where the enemies armies are can be vital for your survival, or as a trade item with another player. For beginners, seed all the provinces of your neighbors with scouts. Once you become more comfortable with using scouts, you will be able to diminish the amount that you need. 
 +
 +<WRAP box round >
 +<WRAP column quarter>
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:happygoose.png?64 |}}
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:happygoose2.png?64 |}}
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:happygoose.png?64 |}}
 +</WRAP>
 +<WRAP column quarter right>
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:happygoose2.png?64 |}}
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:happygoose.png?64 |}}
 +{{ :guides:diplomacy:happygoose2.png?64 |}}
 +</WRAP>
 +<WRAP centeralign>**Things to pay attention to while scouting**</WRAP>
 +  * Enemy bless and army composition.
 +  * Unguarded/site searching mages/pretenders
 +  * Blood hunting operations (usually given away by a large amount of chaff sitting in a random province)
 +  * Thug and troop movements, 
 +  * Lone commanders (probably building forts). 
 +<WRAP centeralign>//All of this information can be vital.//</WRAP>
 +
 +</WRAP>
 +
 ====== Disciples Diplomacy: (2+ Player Disciple Teams) ====== ====== Disciples Diplomacy: (2+ Player Disciple Teams) ======
  
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-<WRAP box round>{{:guides:diplomacy:honk2.png?64&nolink |}}**Further information** +<WRAP box round> ===== Two useful YouTube videos on Diplomacy ===== 
- +<WRAP column half>{{:wiki:lucid.jpg?64 |}} 
-Lucid’s Multiplayer Guide - Diplomacy (on youtube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cUQ0_giqL4+Lucid’s Multiplayer Guide - Diplomacy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cUQ0_giqL4
 </WRAP> </WRAP>
- +<WRAP column half>{{:wiki:perun.jpg?64 |}} 
 +Perun’s Dominions 5 Strategy: Diplomacy Concepts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH41pY3xkY 
 +</WRAP></WRAP> 
 +{{tag>Guides}}
toldi-diplomacy.1606508253.txt.gz · Last modified: 2020/11/27 20:17 by naaira

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