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--- dom6:guides_and_player_improvement:strategy_articles:thugs [2026/07/21 12:13]
cybertron2 [Prot Thugs]
+++ dom6:guides_and_player_improvement:strategy_articles:thugs [2026/07/22 12:40] (current)
cybertron2
@@ Line 105: / Line 105: @@
 ===A simple example===
-Say you have 29 Prot and roll a 3 when fatigued out (1/12 fights you roll a 2 or 3). You end at 25 prot (29-7+4). Meanwhile an opposing heavy infantry with a mere 16 damage highrolls a 12 (not that big a highroll with exploding DRN - it's exactly 1/6 for 12 or higher).
+Say you have 29 Prot and roll a 3 when fatigued out (1/12 fights you roll a 2 or 3). You end at 25 prot (29-7+3). Meanwhile an opposing heavy infantry with a mere 16 damage highrolls a 12 (not that big a highroll with exploding DRN - it's exactly 1/6 for 12 or higher).
   * It's going to deal 3+1 damage (plus 25% on 3 due to slashing modifier for 4 total) - despite you having 13 more prot than its damage. And you may be tanking dozens of hits each turn, so this 'highroll' is quite likely to happen fairly quickly.
@@ Line 252: / Line 252: @@
   * Simplify and rewrite when its all up
   * Hammers, 5 Gem items, Steel Oven and Cheap Thugs
+  * Expand Counterthug and Counter-Supercombatant
+  * How to deal with Ring of Returning Golem Thug/SC's
+  * Thugs/SC's plus army wipes (e.g. foul vapors)
+  * Anti thug magic
+  * Anti-immortal strategies [Soul Slay (w or w/o mind hunt)] [Curse Variants] [DOME] MAPS HOW TO DEAL WITH IMMORTAL IMMERSION 22/6/26 [Retreat scripts], [Ravenous Swarm]
+  * Anti Demilich Strategies (a block of its own)
+  * The DemiDrop Pseudo SC.
+  * DM's Hannibal 2AM 22/7/26
+  * Sort thugs also by Research Point (not just type), both const and other
@@ Line 278: / Line 287: @@
           * A counterthug might be a single Cynocephalian Chieftan with a Greatsword of Sharpness. That is going to deal 33ARP slashing damage per round - averaging 21/hit. This kills the very elite thug in two swings (or two thugs in one turn).
-Counterthugs tend to be defined by their weapons. Ordinarily they need some trait that allows them to kill a thug easily.
+Counterthugs tend to be defined by their weapons. Ordinarily they need some trait that allows them to kill a thug easily. Since they aren't designed for sustained combat - they generally don't need to worry about things like staying fatigue neutral or HP regen.
+====Army Thugs====
+An army thug is essentially a thug that rather than doing things solo - sits in an army. Broadly - the goal of these tends to be one of three -
+  * Make a unit semi-indestructible to hold off a large blob of troops
+  * Have a unit designed to snipe elites
+  * Have a super-DPS unit embedded in an army line
+At late research, soul vortex and invulnerability almost automatically make any death mage an army thug. Earlier, players need to be a bit more creative.
+Units designed to hold off large blobs of troops tend to be built similarly to ordinary thugs - albeit with a focus on survivability. They tend to accept every buff the player army can give them, then misbehave with the enemy troop line (sometimes with magic like shockwave, sometimes by just sitting in a blob and occupying it).
+Units designed to snipe elites tend to be build closer to counterthugs, with a focus on their weapons. Now because these are embedded in an army, they're often built a little more expensively as players can stack their armies buffs on them and really boost up the defensive onion. But at core, these units are focused around their weapon and target. Flying or Gift of flight can be very helpful on these for finding targets
+Super-DPS inline units are just what they sound like. In a line of low to mid DPS units, having a few GSS thugs can suddenly make that line extremely dangerous and hard to deal with. There are quite a few ways to build these, but since it tends to be part of a troop line, the tendency is to make them fairly barebones and weapon focused.
 ====Common Thug Buffs -> Up to Research 4=====
 Multiplicative Buffs (The Best Ones)
@@ Line 352: / Line 373: @@
 <color #7092be>Blue-Gray Highlighted Text</color>####TODO Overdo and ignore fatigue on a vanjarl thug to show how NOT to do it</color>
+====Heavy Thug====
+**Machaka Phoenix Pyre Soul Vortex Anti-Infantry Heavy Thug [25-30 Gems] (Twicebornable)**
+//This is a straightforward Fire/Death Pyre/Vortex/Invuln Thug. It's predictable but it's very effective, with vortex providing the reinvig to keep pyre going forever. This requires Alteration 7 for Pyre//
+//If you're incredibly greedy - you can cast twiceborn on these then cast transformation (or do it the other way around albeit twiceborn will cost more gems) and hope for a giant chassis. This essentially will turn it into a proper supercombatant (in both forms). When supercombatanting - you would gear more extensively.//
+  * ??Black Sorcerer??
+  * ??Skull Staff?? [Any Armor], ??Boots of the Messenger??, ??Girdle of Might??
+  * ??Invulnerability??, ??Soul Vortex??, ??Fire Shield??, ??Phoenix Pyre??
+====Light Thug====
+**Vampire Lord Light Thug - 96 Blood Slaves (0-10 gems)**
+//This flies, is immortal (so is low committment) and can raid moderate amounts of PD solo even ungeared. Works well ungeared and with a single piece of armor. Also it can swap to horde of skeleton spam or melee variants on a dime which can cause counterthugs fits. Being immortal and flying means this unit can take otherwise risky lines. Boots and armor can be brought in to raid deeper and increase survivability for relatively few gems. A very powerful unit - but it's deep in research at blood 8. In dominions 5 it was exceptional at blood 7, now it competes with Three Red Seconds, so it's still good but lost some utility (the alternatives are stronger)//
+//Also notable - this can be magic phased with ??Hell Ride??//
+  * ??Vampire Lord??
+  * [No Gear or 5 Gem Armor]
+  * ??Soul Vortex??, [Spells (Can end on Reinvigoration with 1 Slave)]
+-- TODO
+Vanjarl: Snake bladder stick, poison ring. Blessing, personal Mistform, (pick one of air shield, personal luck, blur, gem into displacement or shroud of bewilderment), hold hold attack closest.
+Hangadrott, wraith sword, Elemental Armor, black steel helm, girdle of might, amulet of magic resistance. Blessing, Invulnerability, Soul Vortex, Shroud of Bewilderment, Displacement, Attack Closest.
+Anansi: Frost Brand, Kithaironic Pelt (for F/G/N random) or armor of the knight (for E/D random), Boots of the Messenger. Shroud of Bewilderment, Displacement, (fire shield OR Barkskin OR Personal Ironskin OR gem into Invulnerability). Mostly for stealth raiding light to medium PD behind enemy lines.
+====Army Thug====
+**MA Jotunheim - Cheap Giant Army Thug / Counter-Thug - 10-15B **
+//This works because its incredibly cheap. It only uses blood slaves, hits hard, and is on a non-mage sacred commander so can accept a bless. Weapons can be interchanged, but flesh eater is a natural fit - since this line doesn't use any gems nor many slaves//
+  * ??Jotun Herse??
+  * ??Flesh Eater?? (X1 or X2),??Ring Of The Warrior??
+  * Attack Closest
+====Counter-Thug====
+**5 Gem Hammer of the Mountains Cyno/Caveman**
+//This is an incredibly barebones counterthug. It is designed to deal with small units with the AOE stun - essentially stunlocking them until they die. It is effective against low str targets and defense stackers.//
+  * ??Cynocephalian Chieftain??
+  * ??Hammer of the Mountains??
+  * Attack Closest
+=====The Infamous Demilich Pretender (Going to treat it as a Supercombatant) =====
+**Demilich V1 - Battlefield Spells - 0-10 gems of gear, 3 gems to teleport, 1-2 D gems**
+//This works because the demilich is immortal, and can use innate caster to bonk an entire army at the start of combat with some crippling battlefield wide spell. The basic idea is it teleports in, kills everything or mames everything (e.g. with disease), and either wins (fine), or dies and respawns, ready to do it all next turn, and the next turn etc. It wears Magic Penetration gear to increase the kill potential//
+//Because the Demilich can do this time and time again, it rapidly can wear down any attacking force, killing large volumes of mages and troops. It can singlehandedly make it difficult to move stacks around in the mid-lategame. Since few answers deal with it permanently (and if an opponent has answers, the user presumably takes precautions), this can be between nuisance every turn from the moment it comes online, to a game-ending stack wiping monster. This makes it the single most feared lategame pretender chassis in Dominions6//
+//Such a build benefits from Blood4 due to the bonus 10HP, needs S3 (teleport), and at least D6 (Bone grinding). The rest of the pathing on the pretender can vary significantly based on player preference.//
+  * ??Demilich??
+  * ??Eye of the Void??, ??Spell Focus??
+  * ??Bone Grinding?? OR ??Wind of Death?? -> Other Spells or recasts [also a 5x Magic Duel variant]
+**V2 - Phoenix Pyre Variant - 4 Gems (No Items)**
+//This is essentially the anti-PD variant. It's an ungeared or reinvig geared variant that just keeps respawning and killing things with magic. Technically you can put the two builds together, but they have quite different functions and will often want different spells (It's not bad on wind of death to keep the spell up for longer).//
+  * ??Demilich??
+  * No Items
+  * ??Phoenix Pyre??, ??Soul Vortex??, Other Spells (??Reinvigoration?? can be nice, but there's a lot of options here)
+=====The Horror Harmonica Golem Supercombatant=====
+**Horror Harmonica Golem - 130 Gems Core, usually with another 30-40 gems in Armor, Misc Slot, Boots, Weapon/Shield. This is an expensive SuperCombatant that is hard to kill, can give players fits, and should not be skimped on**
+//This is one of the most feared supercombatants in dominions since any nation can make it. It is one of the big payoffs for being the first person to construction 9. Essentially, the way it works is the user has a teleporting golem with a ring of returning that summons horrors as a kill mechanism. It's hard to pin down and unpredictable due to teleport so counterthugging (the classic answer is to make a counterthug designed to 1hit the golem  is difficult, its hard to kill in 1 hit, and it summons horrors every turn that won't attack it (mindless). Mindless also means answers like soul slay fail//
+//Otherwise, the golem can shuffle its gear a bit, and can hold an astral pearl in case you ever want to actually cast returning (e.g. teleport onto a non-lab tile and need an emergency button for a specialized counterthug). //
+//(IDK the exact mechanics on ring of returning but there's a grace period so some counterthugs can hit twice before it goes off - killing the golem))//
+  * ??Golem??
+  * ??The Horror Harmonica??, ??Ring of Returning??, ??Starshine Skullcap?? (weapons and armor to preference but with a goal to not get 1shot)
+  * Summon Horror X5.
+====MA Xibalba - I can't believe it's not a vampire lord (Invuln Vortex Thugs)====
+**Camazots (D2) Cheap Backline Raider/Army Thug 2-3 gems + 5-10 gems of gear**
+//The basic idea of this thug is it's cheap (it carries 2 gems to cast invuln and vortex), flies (so it can attack rear), and has D2 for invuln/vortex. It jumps in the backline after r5 and wreaks Havok on mage lines. It can also be equipped with a weapon like a GSS or Flesh Eater to increase its DPS. With 1 piece of armor, this unit has in the low 30's of prot as well as soul vortex to stay alive. There are other shennanigans (in tham Xibalba can self-buff luck), but it's essentially a much earlier (and non-immortal) vampire lord thug. It's a bit light on stats for heavy thugging or supercombatanting. Notably, you can use more than one of these at once - and the same lines work on the twiceborned chassis.//
+  * ??Camazotz#2719??
+  * ??Blacksteel Plate??, ??Flesh Eater??
+  * ??Invulnerability??, ??Soul Vortex??, ??Gift of the Fourth Soul??, Hold, ??Reinvigoration??, Attack Rear
+=====The Earlygame Bronze Colossus Pretender Supercombatant=====
+//This is an inanimate pretender with innate caster, lots of prot, lots of resists, and air paths so it can teleport. Earlygame, a lot of nations simply can't answer this or require extremely dedicated answers. The bronze colossus - albeit boring - has a bad habit of winning games due to wiping out stacks with ease, and being a magic phase monster//
+//In theory it's a little vulnerable to thugs - GSS lines, Smasher's etc. In practice, it often moves via magic phase, can always embed in an army after a teleport, and usually has a sufficient kill mechanism that a few thugs won't cut it without some serious gear.//
+//Normally, this unit will cast shockwave on spam for damage - albeit iron fists also works on hard targets. Finding the goldilocks balance of gear can be tricky - but this unit generally likes a lot of buffs. Just because it's a one man army doesn't stop you from fluffing Body Ethereal or some other multiplicative spell.//
+//One core thing to remember - even though it has innate caster and is inanimate (low fatigue), if you give it too much encumbrance and a lengthy buff script - the fatigue can be non-trivial. Since any non armor-defeating hits are likely to do nothing - this is a real consideration.//
+=====MA Naba Malikah - Multifaceted Thug=====

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