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dom6:guides_and_player_improvement:strategy_articles:thugs [2026/07/21 12:21]
cybertron2 [Heavy Thug] 		dom6:guides_and_player_improvement:strategy_articles:thugs [2026/07/24 11:31] (current)
cybertron2 [The Late Game Innate Caster Giant Rock Pretender Supercombatant]
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 ===A simple example===  ===A simple example=== 
-Say you have 29 Prot and roll a 3 when fatigued out (1/12 fights you roll a 2 or 3). You end at 25 prot (29-7+4). Meanwhile an opposing heavy infantry with a mere 16 damage highrolls a 12 (not that big a highroll with exploding DRN - it's exactly 1/6 for 12 or higher). +Say you have 29 Prot and roll a 3 when fatigued out (1/12 fights you roll a 2 or 3). You end at 25 prot (29-7+3). Meanwhile an opposing heavy infantry with a mere 16 damage highrolls a 12 (not that big a highroll with exploding DRN - it's exactly 1/6 for 12 or higher). 
  
   * It's going to deal 3+1 damage (plus 25% on 3 due to slashing modifier for 4 total) - despite you having 13 more prot than its damage. And you may be tanking dozens of hits each turn, so this 'highroll' is quite likely to happen fairly quickly.   * It's going to deal 3+1 damage (plus 25% on 3 due to slashing modifier for 4 total) - despite you having 13 more prot than its damage. And you may be tanking dozens of hits each turn, so this 'highroll' is quite likely to happen fairly quickly.
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           * Earth power is a close second, being reinvigoration in spell form (allowing many units to be fatigue neutral at const 3)           * Earth power is a close second, being reinvigoration in spell form (allowing many units to be fatigue neutral at const 3)
   * The skin spells (barkskin/Stoneskin/Ironskin), Body Ethereal, Temper Armors, Enlarge, Regeneration, Mossbody can all be painted on by fluffers. Early there’s a series of powerful self buffs (Temper Flesh, skeletal body), and lategame there’s Phoenix Pyre and Soul Vortex, the former which with positive fatigue can make a unit near invincible, the latter which is a one stop shop fatigue solution. Earth power is easy to miss (Conj3) but provides much needed reinvigoration for earth mages.   * The skin spells (barkskin/Stoneskin/Ironskin), Body Ethereal, Temper Armors, Enlarge, Regeneration, Mossbody can all be painted on by fluffers. Early there’s a series of powerful self buffs (Temper Flesh, skeletal body), and lategame there’s Phoenix Pyre and Soul Vortex, the former which with positive fatigue can make a unit near invincible, the latter which is a one stop shop fatigue solution. Earth power is easy to miss (Conj3) but provides much needed reinvigoration for earth mages.
-  * Reinvigoration items come into their own at const 5 (boots of the messenger / amulet of reinvigoration (N), and Girdle of Might (E)). Similarly – amulet of regeneration is ‘the’ regeneration item at const5. The defensive misc items also get a notch better – from the underwhelming bracers of protection at const 3 to the more potent shock spool / dancing trident. +  * Reinvigoration items come into their own at const 5 (boots of the messenger / amulet of reinvigoration (N), and Girdle of Might (E)). Similarly – amulet of regeneration is ‘the’ regeneration item at const5. The defensive misc items also get a notch better e.g. shock spool / dancing trident. Some items at const3 need some help but can also be quite good - bracers of protection also gets buffed by Temper Armors, so on its own it's underwhelming, but with temper armours it represents +6 head and body armor.
   * At const 3 thugs can be a bit finnicky and struggle to stay fatigue positive, whilst at const5, the options tend to greatly increase. There is more variety at con7 - but const3 and const 5 are sort of the 'core' thug techs.   * At const 3 thugs can be a bit finnicky and struggle to stay fatigue positive, whilst at const5, the options tend to greatly increase. There is more variety at con7 - but const3 and const 5 are sort of the 'core' thug techs.
  
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 --- ---
 TODO TODO
-  * Army Thugs +
-  * Counterthugs +
-<del>  * Review wiki pages </del>   +
-  * Second round of feedback+
   * Thug/SUpercombatant Usage and Risk (aka skirmish raiders, deep raiders etc)   * Thug/SUpercombatant Usage and Risk (aka skirmish raiders, deep raiders etc)
-<del>  * Doubled cost of losing thugs</del> 
   * Specific point buffing section (best point buffs research 1-4 -> Self and Fluffers -> Sort by magictype bold the priorities, bold underline the defining spells)   * Specific point buffing section (best point buffs research 1-4 -> Self and Fluffers -> Sort by magictype bold the priorities, bold underline the defining spells)
-  * Memoria Notes 
-  * Hannibal Notes 
   * HOW NOT TO MAKE A THUG (lets use my own horrid examples)   * HOW NOT TO MAKE A THUG (lets use my own horrid examples)
-  * Simplify and rewrite when its all up 
   * Hammers, 5 Gem items, Steel Oven and Cheap Thugs   * Hammers, 5 Gem items, Steel Oven and Cheap Thugs
 +  * Thugs/SC's plus army wipes (e.g. foul vapors)
 +  * Anti Demilich Strategies (a block of its own)
 +  * DM's Hannibal 2AM 22/7/26
 +  * Sort thugs also by Research Point (not just type), both const and other
 +  * how natural protection / invulnerability and armour stacks.
 +  * Innate caster: Howl, astral tempest (right name?) phoenix pyre + whatever
 +  * a section that shows some thugs / SCs that explains how you should identify what their strengths and weaknesses are and  how to deal with them.
 +
 +
 +**LATE IN THE PIECE**
 +  * Add a newbie section of SC's and answers
 +  * Second round of feedback
 +  * Simplify and rewrite when its all up
  
  
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           * A counterthug might be a single Cynocephalian Chieftan with a Greatsword of Sharpness. That is going to deal 33ARP slashing damage per round - averaging 21/hit. This kills the very elite thug in two swings (or two thugs in one turn).           * A counterthug might be a single Cynocephalian Chieftan with a Greatsword of Sharpness. That is going to deal 33ARP slashing damage per round - averaging 21/hit. This kills the very elite thug in two swings (or two thugs in one turn).
  
-Counterthugs tend to be defined by their weapons. Ordinarily they need some trait that allows them to kill a thug easily. +Counterthugs tend to be defined by their weapons. Ordinarily they need some trait that allows them to kill a thug easily. Since they aren't designed for sustained combat - they generally don't need to worry about things like staying fatigue neutral or HP regen.
  
 +====Army Thugs====
 +An army thug is essentially a thug that rather than doing things solo - sits in an army. Broadly - the goal of these tends to be one of three - 
 +  * Make a unit semi-indestructible to hold off a large blob of troops
 +  * Have a unit designed to snipe elites
 +  * Have a super-DPS unit embedded in an army line
  
-====Common Thug Buffs -> Up to Research 4===== +At late research, soul vortex and invulnerability almost automatically make any death mage an army thug. Earlier, players need to be a bit more creative. 
-Multiplicative Buffs (The Best Ones) +
-Body Ethere+
  
-SelfBuffs+Units designed to hold off large blobs of troops tend to be built similarly to ordinary thugs - albeit with a focus on survivability. They tend to accept every buff the player army can give them, then misbehave with the enemy troop line (sometimes with magic like shockwave, sometimes by just sitting in a blob and occupying it).  
 + 
 +Units designed to snipe elites tend to be build closer to counterthugs, with a focus on their weapons. Now because these are embedded in an army, they're often built a little more expensively as players can stack their armies buffs on them and really boost up the defensive onion. But at core, these units are focused around their weapon and target. Flying or Gift of flight can be very helpful on these for finding targets 
 + 
 +Super-DPS inline units are just what they sound like. In a line of low to mid DPS units, having a few GSS thugs can suddenly make that line extremely dangerous and hard to deal with. There are quite a few ways to build these, but since it tends to be part of a troop line, the tendency is to make them fairly barebones and weapon focused.  
 + 
 +MEMORIA NOTES (to clean up) 
 +  * Generally want to be more minimalist 
 +  * Wading is a massive deal 
 +  * More offensive in nature 
 +  * Use the troops around them as defense (hard to surround) 
 +====Common Thug Buffs -> Up to Research 4===== 
 +## REDO this - need to get underlining right etc in images
  
-Fluffable Buffs 
  
-SelfBuffable and Fluffable Buffs+====Common Thug Gear -> Up to Research 5==== 
 +//Underlined = High Value in this niche//
  
 +{{:dom6:guides_and_player_improvement:strategy_articles:b1.png?600|}}
 +{{:dom6:guides_and_player_improvement:strategy_articles:b2.png?600|}}
 +{{:dom6:guides_and_player_improvement:strategy_articles:b3.png?600|}}
 +{{:dom6:guides_and_player_improvement:strategy_articles:b4.png?600|}}
 +{{:dom6:guides_and_player_improvement:strategy_articles:b5.png?600|}}
 ====Hammer Economy - why hammers are more than just +2 gems==== ====Hammer Economy - why hammers are more than just +2 gems====
 +
 +
 +=====Light Thugs / Raiders=====
 +  * Generally more minimalist
 +  * More defensive in nature (relative to army thugs)
 +  * Armour defeating hits become a big deal
 +  * Etc
 +
 +
 +=====Other Structural Notes - Memoria=====
 +  * Gear,
 +  * Mechanics,
 +  * Scripts,
 +  * Supporting 'stuff' (e.g. scouts carrying mask of face borrowing following SC's around to step them getting mphase'd by counter thugs),
  
  
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 ====Heavy Thug==== ====Heavy Thug====
-**Machaka Phoenix Pyre Soul Vortex Anti-Infantry Heavy Thug**+**Machaka Phoenix Pyre Soul Vortex Anti-Infantry Heavy Thug [25-30 Gems] (Twicebornable)**  
  
 //This is a straightforward Fire/Death Pyre/Vortex/Invuln Thug. It's predictable but it's very effective, with vortex providing the reinvig to keep pyre going forever. This requires Alteration 7 for Pyre// //This is a straightforward Fire/Death Pyre/Vortex/Invuln Thug. It's predictable but it's very effective, with vortex providing the reinvig to keep pyre going forever. This requires Alteration 7 for Pyre//
 +
 +Assuming wiki is in-date [[https://illwiki.com/dom5/twiceborn]]
 +
 +//If you're incredibly greedy - you can cast twiceborn on these then cast transformation (or do it the other way around albeit twiceborn will cost more gems) and hope for a giant chassis. This essentially will turn it into a proper supercombatant (in both forms). When supercombatanting - you would gear more extensively.//
  
   * ??Black Sorcerer??   * ??Black Sorcerer??
   * ??Skull Staff?? [Any Armor], ??Boots of the Messenger??, ??Girdle of Might??   * ??Skull Staff?? [Any Armor], ??Boots of the Messenger??, ??Girdle of Might??
   * ??Invulnerability??, ??Soul Vortex??, ??Fire Shield??, ??Phoenix Pyre??   * ??Invulnerability??, ??Soul Vortex??, ??Fire Shield??, ??Phoenix Pyre??
 +
 +
 +====Light Thug====
 +
 +**Vampire Lord Light Thug - 96 Blood Slaves (0-10 gems)**
 +
 +//This flies, is immortal (so is low committment) and can raid moderate amounts of PD solo even ungeared. Works well ungeared and with a single piece of armor. Also it can swap to horde of skeleton spam or melee variants on a dime which can cause counterthugs fits. Being immortal and flying means this unit can take otherwise risky lines. Boots and armor can be brought in to raid deeper and increase survivability for relatively few gems. A very powerful unit - but it's deep in research at blood 8. In dominions 5 it was exceptional at blood 7, now it competes with Three Red Seconds, so it's still good but lost some utility (the alternatives are stronger)//
 +
 +//Also notable - this can be magic phased with ??Hell Ride??//
 +
 +  * ??Vampire Lord??
 +  * [No Gear or 5 Gem Armor]
 +  * ??Soul Vortex??, [Spells (Can end on Reinvigoration with 1 Slave)]
 +
 +-- TODO
 +Vanjarl: Snake bladder stick, poison ring. Blessing, personal Mistform, (pick one of air shield, personal luck, blur, gem into displacement or shroud of bewilderment), hold hold attack closest.
 +
 +Hangadrott, wraith sword, Elemental Armor, black steel helm, girdle of might, amulet of magic resistance. Blessing, Invulnerability, Soul Vortex, Shroud of Bewilderment, Displacement, Attack Closest.
 +
 +Anansi: Frost Brand, Kithaironic Pelt (for F/G/N random) or armor of the knight (for E/D random), Boots of the Messenger. Shroud of Bewilderment, Displacement, (fire shield OR Barkskin OR Personal Ironskin OR gem into Invulnerability). Mostly for stealth raiding light to medium PD behind enemy lines.
 +
 +
 +
 +====Army Thug====
 +**MA Jotunheim - Cheap Giant Army Thug / Counter-Thug - 10-15B **
 +
 +//This works because its incredibly cheap. It only uses blood slaves, hits hard, and is on a non-mage sacred commander so can accept a bless. Weapons can be interchanged, but flesh eater is a natural fit - since this line doesn't use any gems nor many slaves//
 +
 +  * ??Jotun Herse??
 +  * ??Flesh Eater?? (X1 or X2),??Ring Of The Warrior??
 +  * Attack Closest
 +
 +
 +====Counter-Thug====
 +
 +**5 Gem Hammer of the Mountains Cyno/Caveman**
 +//This is an incredibly barebones counterthug. It is designed to deal with small units with the AOE stun - essentially stunlocking them until they die. It is effective against low str targets and defense stackers.//
 +
 +  * ??Cynocephalian Chieftain??
 +  * ??Hammer of the Mountains??
 +  * Attack Closest
 +
 +
 +=====The Infamous Demilich Pretender (Going to treat it as a Supercombatant) =====
 +**Demilich V1 - Battlefield Spells - 0-10 gems of gear, 3 gems to teleport, 1-2 D gems**
 +
 +//This works because the demilich is immortal, and can use innate caster to bonk an entire army at the start of combat with some crippling battlefield wide spell. The basic idea is it teleports in, kills everything or mames everything (e.g. with disease), and either wins (fine), or dies and respawns, ready to do it all next turn, and the next turn etc. It wears Magic Penetration gear to increase the kill potential//
 +
 +//Because the Demilich can do this time and time again, it rapidly can wear down any attacking force, killing large volumes of mages and troops. It can singlehandedly make it difficult to move stacks around in the mid-lategame. Since few answers deal with it permanently (and if an opponent has answers, the user presumably takes precautions), this can be between nuisance every turn from the moment it comes online, to a game-ending stack wiping monster. This makes it the single most feared lategame pretender chassis in Dominions6//
 +
 +//Such a build benefits from Blood4 due to the bonus 10HP, needs S3 (teleport), and at least D6 (Bone grinding). The rest of the pathing on the pretender can vary significantly based on player preference.//
 +
 +  * ??Demilich??
 +  * ??Eye of the Void??, ??Spell Focus??
 +  * ??Bone Grinding?? OR ??Wind of Death?? -> Other Spells or recasts [also a 5x Magic Duel variant]
 +
 +**V2 - Phoenix Pyre Variant - 4 Gems (No Items)**
 +
 +//This is essentially the anti-PD variant. It's an ungeared or reinvig geared variant that just keeps respawning and killing things with magic. Technically you can put the two builds together, but they have quite different functions and will often want different spells (It's not bad on wind of death to keep the spell up for longer).//
 +
 +  * ??Demilich??
 +  * No Items
 +  * ??Phoenix Pyre??, ??Soul Vortex??, Other Spells (??Reinvigoration?? can be nice, but there's a lot of options here) 
 +
 +=====The Horror Harmonica Golem Supercombatant=====
 +
 +**Horror Harmonica Golem - 130 Gems Core, usually with another 30-40 gems in Armor, Misc Slot, Boots, Weapon/Shield. This is an expensive SuperCombatant that is hard to kill, can give players fits, and should not be skimped on**
 +
 +//This is one of the most feared supercombatants in dominions since any nation can make it. It is one of the big payoffs for being the first person to construction 9. Essentially, the way it works is the user has a teleporting golem with a ring of returning that summons horrors as a kill mechanism. It's hard to pin down and unpredictable due to teleport so counterthugging (the classic answer is to make a counterthug designed to 1hit the golem  is difficult, its hard to kill in 1 hit, and it summons horrors every turn that won't attack it (mindless). Mindless also means answers like soul slay fail//
 +
 +//Otherwise, the golem can shuffle its gear a bit, and can hold an astral pearl in case you ever want to actually cast returning (e.g. teleport onto a non-lab tile and need an emergency button for a specialized counterthug). //
 +
 +//(IDK the exact mechanics on ring of returning but there's a grace period so some counterthugs can hit twice before it goes off - killing the golem))//
 +
 +  * ??Golem??
 +  * ??The Horror Harmonica??, ??Ring of Returning??, ??Starshine Skullcap?? (weapons and armor to preference but with a goal to not get 1shot)
 +  * Summon Horror X5.
 +
 +===Why this unit is so annoying===
 +There are a small variety of answers to this unit - mostly focused around a unit with const gear hitting really hard and killing the golem in 1 round before ring of returning pops. For example - Dalts Reccomends a Golem of ones own with ??Gloves of the Gladiator?? to deal massive damage in one turn and kill the golem. A players gets the attack 'cycle' of one weapon - so quickness won't help but having a weapon that hits twice (or four times) will. 
 +
 +The big problem is - if there's a magic phase 'war' you need to both have your super-thug, predict where the golem will teleport to (with a wary opponent), Magic phase in yourself, and if there's no lab there - risk your opponent doing some sneaky MP thing with a different kitout to loot your thug. So the supercombatant golem actually quite hard to pin down - albeit there are theoretical answers. 
 +
 +=====Dealing with Returning Thugs/Raiders and How Returning Works (Thanks Naaira)=====
 +===Thug Answers===
 +
 +Returning triggers at the 'end' of the attack cycle for 1 weapon. This means a weapon that hits twice will get both hits in before returning triggers. Now this doesn't stack with buffs like quickness - so you get the number of attacks on the weapon.
 +
 +There are a few weapons that take advantage of this. ??Sword of Swiftness?? hits twice, ??Gloves of the Gladiator?? hits 4 times!! and ??Wave Breaker?? hits 3 times. All 3 are good options for dealing with a returning thug using items - especially if on a good chassis and carefully buffed.
 +
 +===Magic Answers===
 +Any magic to deal with a returning thug has to kill it in one hit. If your opponent has Astral Paths (they shouldn't unless they're a demilich because of this) - ??Magic Duel?? is the best answer. 
 +
 +Otherwise, a few specfic spells can punch through a high HP returning chassis. //Ironically these aren't great answers to a demilich as it keeps coming back.// 
 +  * ??Gifts from Heaven??
 +  * ??Disintegrate?? and ??Stream of Life??
 +  * The blood banish spells ??Infernal Prison?? and ??Claws of Kokytos??  and for smaller targets ??Life for a Life??
 +  * Against non-undead  and smaller chassis ??Bane Fire??
 +  * For magic units, ??Control?? / ??Opposition??
 +  * Technically charm effects work but SC's tend to have high morale. 
 +
 +====MA Xibalba - I can't believe it's not a vampire lord (Invuln Vortex Thugs)====
 +**Camazots (D2) Cheap Backline Raider/Army Thug 2-3 gems + 5-10 gems of gear**
 +
 +//The basic idea of this thug is it's cheap (it carries 2 gems to cast invuln and vortex), flies (so it can attack rear), and has D2 for invuln/vortex. It jumps in the backline after r5 and wreaks Havok on mage lines. It can also be equipped with a weapon like a GSS or Flesh Eater to increase its DPS. With 1 piece of armor, this unit has in the low 30's of prot as well as soul vortex to stay alive. There are other shennanigans (in tham Xibalba can self-buff luck), but it's essentially a much earlier (and non-immortal) vampire lord thug. It's a bit light on stats for heavy thugging or supercombatanting. Notably, you can use more than one of these at once - and the same lines work on the twiceborned chassis.//
 +
 +
 +
 +  * ??Camazotz#2719??
 +  * ??Blacksteel Plate??, ??Flesh Eater??
 +  * ??Invulnerability??, ??Soul Vortex??, ??Gift of the Fourth Soul??, Hold, ??Reinvigoration??, Attack Rear
 +
 +
 +=====The Earlygame Bronze Colossus Pretender Supercombatant=====
 +
 +//This is an inanimate pretender with innate caster, lots of prot, lots of resists, and air paths so it can teleport. Earlygame, a lot of nations simply can't answer this or require extremely dedicated answers. The bronze colossus - albeit boring - has a bad habit of winning games due to wiping out stacks with ease, and being a magic phase monster//
 +
 +//In theory it's a little vulnerable to thugs - GSS lines, Smasher's etc. In practice, it often moves via magic phase, can always embed in an army after a teleport, and usually has a sufficient kill mechanism that a few thugs won't cut it without some serious gear.//
 +
 +//Normally, this unit will cast shockwave on spam for damage - albeit iron fists also works on hard targets. Finding the goldilocks balance of gear can be tricky - but this unit generally likes a lot of buffs. Just because it's a one man army doesn't stop you from fluffing Body Ethereal or some other multiplicative spell.//
 +
 +//One core thing to remember - even though it has innate caster and is inanimate (low fatigue), if you give it too much encumbrance and a lengthy buff script - the fatigue can be non-trivial. Since any non armor-defeating hits are likely to do nothing - this is a real consideration.//
 +
 +=====The Late Game Innate Caster Giant Rock Pretender Supercombatant=====
 +
 +//There's a few variants of this - but broadly - this uses an inanimate chassis, some battlefield wipe spell (??Soul Drain?? being the gold standard, and optionally something like Phoenix Pyre to keep the pretender alive (albeit usually they're pretty hard to kill and enemy units die fast). Innate caster making sure spells go off turn 1 is significant, a lot of things like ??Winds of Death??, ??Earthquake??, ??Fire Storm?? etc get better T1. 
 +//
 +
 +**Unempowered Lategame Idol of Sorcery**
 +
 +  * ??Idol of Sorcery??
 +  * ??Eye of the Void??, ??Amulet of Antimagic??
 +  * ??Soul Drain??, ??Soul Vortex??, ??Astral Shield??, ??Body Ethereal??, ??Shroud of Bewilderment??
 +
 +
 +=====The Early to Early-MidGame Innate Caster Giant Rock Pretender Supercombatant=====
 +
 +//At this phase of the game a big, inanimate, teleporting rock can be very hard to deal with. Layer on a few defensive buffs, and you have a super-combatant that can't move (ergo can't retreat) - so if it survives the combat - will rout the enemy. Of course, these big inanimate units tend to have a bunch of HP and can also just kill entire armies. However given the value of ones pretender - the safest use for these is picking off fringe parties, since dropping on someone's main army can be risky (with magic, and forged items and all). Nevertheless - it can drop on armies. //
 +
 +//A popular meme strategy is getting some form of rock pretender awake and teleporting onto someones capital. It has its risks and problems, but if you can pull it off, it can obviously be crippling in a first war situation. Of course, this also leaves you on an awake researcher line with 'at best' an out of commission pretender for other players **(or a big honking trade partner for a third party with E forging)** - killing your pretender - leaving both players crippled and likely in a hellwar - in a position for said third player to swoop in). And if the monodrop fails for some reason, that's a very good way to knock one's self out of the game. As such - monodrop buids tend to be a bit of a meme//
 +
 +//Typically this type of supercombatant has a few glaring weaknesses.// 
 +  * They tend to die quickly to construction 3 E items - so they often need to take care. In higher skill lobbies, these items will be traded around in the hopes of sniping such as super-combatant so a nation's lack of E access does not prevent them from deploying these
 +  * They tend to be very reliant on either Prot (e.g. Monolith) or a high HP pool with some defenses (e.g. Baphomet). Accordingly - they are vulnerable to high damage/arp/an, and magic weapons correspondingly. 
 +  * They tend to take some chip damage in a fight - so can't 'go forever'
 +  * They want to teleport onto labs if possible so they can teleport to safety after
 +  * It can be awkward getting the research needed to use these in a timely manner. They typically need Thamuturgy4 for the teleport, but their actual combat spells come from other paths. As such, they can often come online later than one might expect (since a user needs multiple researches at 2-4) where they are more vulnerable
 +  * Come the midgame - these aren't incredibly sturdy. It's the phase before battlefield wipes - so they don't kill quickly - but after research 3-4ish, so players have some good magic, Evocation is creeping up in damage and construction items are flying around. They're still good, but as the game goes on, they become increasingly risky to use
 +
 +
 +  * 
 +=====MA Naba Malikah - Multifaceted Thug=====
 +//The Malikah is quite a complicated thugging unit. Naba gets access to a range of buffs - so it can have a lot of buffs painted on. It has good paths (is slowrec so is expensive), solid stats (especially in magic scales), decent HP and human encumbrance (3). It's complicated because there are so many good aspects - and yet the unit struggles to balance fatigue / thugging and it's easy to go overboard, fatigue out, and die.//
 +
 +//The basic spells it wants to selfbuff (on Naba's paths) are
 +??Shroud of Splendor??, ??Shroud of Bewilderment?? - both which add additional defensive layers. ??Fire Shield?? is another obvious choice. It can add self buffs depending on paths rolled (E for Earth power being the best).//
 +
 +//It wants a few spells fluffed. Ideally it wants a skin buff like ??Stoneskin??, ??Mistform?? (or self-buffed), ??Displacement?? (or ??Blur??), %%Bless%% at a minimum, ??Temper Armors??. The best of these (Stoneskin/Mistform) are at alt 4 however and a little deeper in research than the rest of the kit.//
 +
 +//Put all this together and you have a lot of defensive layers at around research 3-4, albeit fatigue remains in issue. Fortunately - the self buffs aren't especially fatigue heavy, but a complicating factor is the best fatigue regen items come at con5 (albeit ??Rangers Boots?? exist at con3) Even with all the defensive layers the unit will be a little vulnerable as it wants to spam ??Shockwave?? in combat, which will tend to fatigue it out. However this makes it a very killy, very hard to kill unit for not a huge gem investment. However it's a versatile enough defensive 'base' to build in quite a few different ways (and lategame as a pyre unit as well).// 
 +
 +//You can build this a few different ways - as a cheapo thug, with a weapon element (like repel), as a mage, as a heavy thug with a shield. There's no one way to do this - as the chassis can hold a lot of buffs - but the core remains, multiple layers of defense, decent stats, and not too fatigue negative.// 
 +
 +**Example Malikah Heavy Thug - 15 gems (earth random) - 1 gem carried - Research 3. **
 +
 +  * ??Malikah??
 +  * ??Blacksteel Plate??, ??Ranger Boots??, ??Thunder Whip?? (for repel), ??Burning Pearl?? (for repel)
 +  * ??Summon Earthpower??, ??Flying Shield??, ??Shroud of Splendor??, ??Shroud of Bewilderment??, ??Fire Shield??
 +  * Fluffed - ??Blur??, ??Bless??, ??Temper Armors??
 +
 +=====Ulm Barebones Black Lord Army Thug (1 Gem with hammers!!)=====
 +
 +//This is a barebones, no nonsense army thug (or counterthug). Other nations can do similar things, or use indie heavy cavalry, but it works best on ulm due to their multiple earth gem discounts to forging - so this can cost as little as 1 gem and provides quite a lot of killing power on an armored chassis. They get stronger when fluffed with low level earth spells (Temper Armor, Strength of Giants) and body ethereal (a classic). Obviously  - they can be buffed more, but 1 weapon (typically GSS as it tends to outperform the alternatives), light buffing is the core (they can work without the buffing but it's a bit of a gimmie). Given ulm can easily buff Temper Armors ??Bracers of Protection?? are also a consideration for 1 gem at con3, as the extra 6 armor (once armors is cast) is non-trivial for survivability//
 +
 +**Ulm Black Lord 5 Gem (with ulm discounts) thwacker**
 +
 +  * ??Black Lord??
 +  * ??Greatsword of Sharpness??
 +  * HoldX3-5. Attack Closest
 +  * Best with a random mage fluffing ??Temper Armors??, ??Strength of Giants??, ??Body Ethereal??
 +
 +
 +=====Magic to Counter Thugs and Supercombatants=====
 +Firstly - not all magic will work all the time. Due to the wide variety of thugs that can be built - and the large number of spells - this list will invariably be missing effective spells and answers. Nevertheless, this should serve as a reasonable starting point.
 +
 +  * **Curse:** This is the premiere anti SC anti-thug spell. It comes in a G/N and D from at early research (the latter needing gems), and dramatically increases the chance a unit will take an affliction when it takes damage. And since quite a lot of supercombatants take chip damage and rely on regeneration, this will rapidly stack afflictions until the target becomes unviable. Being a low research, low path (albeit G/S is awkward) magic, this is fairly widely available
 +  * **Magic Duel:** Astral thugs and supercombatants are at extreme risk in enemy astral nations due to this spell. It singlehandedly 'disables' low S supercombatant chassis and makes them non-viable in many situations.
 +  * **Web/Earth Meld:** The 'Immobilization spells' are often forgotten - but are highly effective against low STR units or something reliant on defense stacking (like elves). They come at early research, have low path requirements, hit in an AOE, and leave the thug vulnerable for several turns. They're also quite easy to put in a formation (behind the troop line), which is always nice since it makes it hard to go terribly wrong. These are particularly effective against lightly geared but heavily fluffed human/elf thugs, as they tend to lack the strength to break out. Being so low in research - these spells can provide an 'emergency button' versus someone spamming light thugs. 
 +  * **Mind Hunt / Soul Slay**: Although at high research, this is incredibly powerful vs thugs. It allows a defender to remotely snipe attacking thugs - often at a fraction of the gem cost
 +  * **Ravenous Swarm:** This only targets undead and is particularly effective vs human sized twiceborn thugs
 +  * **Damaging Spells** There are an assortment of damage spells across the various research levels that deal with thugs. Given the different research points and the different uses of thugs - it would be trite to list them all.
 +          * Two famously powerful ones are at B8 ??Life for a Life?? (which essentially one shots a human sized thug), and ??Frozen Heart?? (which rapidly kills anything without CR due to dealing AN damage and has low path requirements at W1. If we go lower in the research, ??Lightning Bolt?? can also be very effective. The trait these three spells share is AN damage, so they bypass any armor. 
 +          * A bit more esoterically - the AOE spells at Evocation 5 fare well against a lot of army thugs - so ??Falling Fires??, ??Gifts from Heaven?? etc (arp and high damage and high aoe).
 +  * **Chaff Spam** (e.g. horde of skeletons, Warrior Illusion): Not all thugs have an AOE kill mechanism. Simply spamming chaffy units can overwhelm them. This is particularly effective for nations that can deploy a low volume of mages to deal with an otherwise irritating thug
 +
 +=====Tricks to Deal with Thugs=====
 +**Retreat Orders:** If you fear a thug or supercombatant drop, you can always script an army full of mages to retreat. It's not always an obvious option - but if you're moving in your own lands - this can minimize damage
 +
 +=====Thug Types and PD=====
 +Different thugs do well into different PD. More specifically - prot thugs get really unhappy when thrown at Lizardmen or Barbarians and die quickly. 
 +
 +As a rule of thumb - tribe and underground provinces are good targets for thugs since the PD is weak - and the defender because of that is unlikely to invest heavily. 
 +
 +Of course - tracking PD types is laborious. If you're going maximum effort however - you can track the PD type of border provinces before neighbors conquer them so you can later allocate thugs (or not allocate thugs) to take those squares. Meanwhile - if you're going to PD dump against thugs - it's best that be on a tile that has good independents (such as barbs/lizards/bone tribe/heavycav.
  
dom6/guides_and_player_improvement/strategy_articles/thugs.1784636512.txt.gz · Last modified: 2026/07/21 12:21 by cybertron2

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